Author Topic: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)  (Read 22999 times)

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6812
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2010, 01:21:21 AM »
Chaikel? Is that steve2 posting under your name?

According to steve2's system, everyone on this forum who applied for a cc and increased on the application form his annual income by $1000*, and gets caught, should serve time, as its a crime. (You sign that all you filled in and checked/crossed is correct).
Like wise, crossing a street when its red is a crime.
Ponzyschemes (done lekatchila) to rob people of their money, or e.g. someone telling the bank that he earns more to get a bigger loan, and with the full intention to pay back*, these are all crimes.

However, they vary in my opinion between a $100 fine to 100 years in prison.

If you can't differentiate, then we have a problem.

(*) both cases with an asterisk are about the same: the cc application, I'm sure quite a few members played around with, and case number 2, trying to get a bigger loan SR did...
I just asked a simple question. I'm implying anyone deserves anything or not. Just asking for someone to explain why some people deserve to be convicted for committing a crime and others aren't. Is there a difference between stealing and whatever it was SR did (interestingly SR can also stand for Spinke Rebbe). Morally maybe, legally all three committed crimes. Whether it's loitering or manslaughter ( ;) for those who get that) it can carry a jail sentence.

I dont want to get involved again, as its easy to burn my fingers here. I do not agree to steve in all. But i must say it again, he did commit a crime. He forged documents. Now you might say, everybody does that, do get credit. Well, that does not make it right. I think a major fact that people overlook here, is, that he commited a crime. The sentencing and reason why he was picked on, was unfair and probably biased, but they had a valid reason to charge him. I didnt mention the minors, as its not clear if he knew about it or not. The reason, why all jews incl. Me line up for him, is that we feel his punishment was to harsh since he was a jew or since he was picked on because of shechita. If he would have had a one year sentence, people would have understood. People also understood, when the spinka rebbe was sent to jail. But if the spinka rebbe would have goten 30 years, jews would also scream, as we defend our brother when they are not treated right. Does he deserve to sit in jail? I dont know and dont want to decide this, if most other guys get away with it he should as well. As long as his sentence is as it is, he was wronged and people will support him as clal yosroel. He did alot for shechita and kosher meat in america and we have to have hakoras hatoiv for that, even if he might have made mistakes on the way.
Yes Chuchem, well put. That was my point. He committed a crime.

Is he being treated unfairly? I think that's very possible, yet I am not well versed in the American justice system, yet alone sentencing terms. If jaywalking held a 30 year maximum, and someone jaywalked and got the maximum, some may consider it unfair, but the judge definitely didn't do anything wrong. He may have reasons to throw the book at him (still talking about Mr. Jaywalker). Maybe the judge saw other "small crimes" on the persons record and decided to teach him a lesson. Maybe the judge was just tired of saw many people jaywalking, and decided to set an example. Maybe he woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Maybe he doesn't like the guys haircut (still talking about the jaywalker). If you don't agree with the law or the sentencing terms you should be contacting lawmakers and try to get it changed, but a law is a law, and it carries whatever time it carries.

Now frankly I know very little about this case (please don't say "you even admit you don't know about this case", I'm not really saying much about this specific case) but I think we can all agree that he committed a crime.
Did he get to much time? Well that's doesn't depend on personal opinion, there is a system in place to decide that. Is that system flawed? Yes. But that doesn't mean that it should be up for a public vote.

All that aside, as Fellow Jews, we have a responsibility that comes before almost everything else, called "Pidyon shevuyim". Which means (as I understand it) we have a responsibility to every Jew who gets locked up, to do anything and everything possible to get them out.

From what I know about this story, he got way to much time. Unfortunately my opinion has zero impact on what is or isn't a crime, which crimes carry jail time, or the amount of time one gets for their crime.

I daven and hope that he will be out soon.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 01:24:25 AM by Chaikel »
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6812
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2010, 03:09:35 AM »
In my experience, when someone asks what the difference between two things are, and the response he gets is a personal attack, or a "If you can't see what the difference is there's something wrong with you", it almost always means that a) The person feels that there should be a difference, but can't figure out why. b) There is no difference.

If it's really so obvious just say it, no need to attack an innocent question aimed at gleaning some information.
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline SuperFlyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 9351
  • Total likes: 414
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2010, 03:44:48 AM »
Returning to your last comments: if someone were to say: Eichman ym"sh and SR committed a crime in one sentence, and would ask what the difference is, the right answer would be to get annoyed instead of bothering to explain (if its pretty obvious what is going on). I took a very extreme example, just to clarify.

After being for a while on this planet, I'm sure you realized how much corruption there is, even more so by people that are very high on political or economic level.

Take SR for instance; people were eating meat before he started working, and obviously the enormous grow of his business either shrunk or completely killed some others in the same line. When such happens, some of the "victims" might start pulling strings, that might mean that he will have an accident, or have judges that are makpid more than kechut hasaare...

So, although the law officially states that something is a crime and can be punished, but its enforcement is not in practice, or (not sure whether it exists in the usa) outdated laws (eg from the middle ages) that can be applied, but never are (or at least not to such an extent), then something stinks.

And I hope you do see a difference between Madoff who deliberately scammed people vs someone to photoshop papers to get a higher loan (which he would repay), or a (better) credit card.   

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6812
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2010, 04:59:59 AM »
Returning to your last comments: if someone were to say: Eichman ym"sh and SR committed a crime in one sentence, and would ask what the difference is, the right answer would be to get annoyed instead of bothering to explain (if its pretty obvious what is going on). I took a very extreme example, just to clarify.

After being for a while on this planet, I'm sure you realized how much corruption there is, even more so by people that are very high on political or economic level.

Take SR for instance; people were eating meat before he started working, and obviously the enormous grow of his business either shrunk or completely killed some others in the same line. When such happens, some of the "victims" might start pulling strings, that might mean that he will have an accident, or have judges that are makpid more than kechut hasaare...

So, although the law officially states that something is a crime and can be punished, but its enforcement is not in practice, or (not sure whether it exists in the usa) outdated laws (eg from the middle ages) that can be applied, but never are (or at least not to such an extent), then something stinks.

And I hope you do see a difference between Madoff who deliberately scammed people vs someone to photoshop papers to get a higher loan (which he would repay), or a (better) credit card.   
I do. Especially on a moral basis.

But let's hypothesize for a moment. Let's pretend that in the US scamming people deliberately and forging documents to get a loan carried a mandatory (ie minimum) 30 year sentence. Most if not all people would think that's not reasonable. Yet if it's the law and someone gets convicted of either, legally he must get 30 years.

I'm curios, does anyone have an exact and accurate list of the exact crimes, and count for every crime that he was convicted of. If he was convicted of multiple counts, then he may have actually gotten closer to the mandatory then to the max, since in most cases one serves sentences consecutively, not concurrently.

For EXAMPLE (not referring to SR, just an example): If someone employs 80 illegals/minors, and the minimum sentence per conviction is 3 months, if he is convicted for 80 counts, there would be a mandatory 20 year sentence. A judge that sentences for less than that, is as wrong as one who goes over the max.

Just to restate for the record: I hope and daven he gets out today
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline SuperFlyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 9351
  • Total likes: 414
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2010, 07:06:33 AM »
Agree fully.

However, apparently people that seen from close many cases are of the opinion that by SR its way too harsh.

Now even if that is the official jail quota, but they never respect it, it would not really be right to suddenly take this one korban, and add all the chumros on him.

When this happen to a single person, that's either of a minority group, or people gain a lot by him going out of business/in jail, then questions should be asked.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2010, 02:07:05 PM »
Agree fully.

However, apparently people that seen from close many cases are of the opinion that by SR its way too harsh.

Now even if that is the official jail quota, but they never respect it, it would not really be right to suddenly take this one korban, and add all the chumros on him.

When this happen to a single person, that's either of a minority group, or people gain a lot by him going out of business/in jail, then questions should be asked.

 I cant speak for Belgium but here in the US there is a system in place that allows an Appeal of the sentence (mind you the prosection cant Appeal a Not guilty verdict) And as I have said maybe not so clearly that that is what SR should do and is doing. But I dont feel anti-semitism played that large of a role. Could be the Union/s didnt like not being able to Unionize his place or could be competitors wanted him out of the way. I Dont Know what lies behind what happened and why the DA offered only a 15 yr as a plea deal, there could be numerous things not publicly known from both sides

 The DA and Judge had to expect an Appeal and the more time he was sentenced to the more they knew it would be Appealed, so why they went with 27 yrs which I also said was too much I have no idea

 Or could be just as the govt yrs ago wasnt able to get a conviction on Al Calpone and finally got him on tax evasion so maybe the same thing here , could be they had info but not enough for a conviction and when they finally had something they took it the whole 9 yards, again I dont know both SR and the Govt havent called me to let me in on why they did what they did. Or maybe it wasnt SR they were after but the Company and the powers to be decided they had the best chance by SR taking the rap and hed get a light sentence and they could all go on happily ever after. (thats what Madorf did he took the rap hoping everyone else would be left alone).

 So was Agriprocessors 100% a clean op I have no idea , were enemies made most likely as in any biz that gets large, did that cause the problems I dont know. Look at B&H where they just paid a few million to those employees (Women and Spanish) that were over looked for higher paying jobs and store jobs as well and were paid less then the Jewish males doing the same job. If any of them wanted to get B&H and had info where they were doing things they shouldnt have been , they would report them. Did that happen at Agriprocessors I dont know , were some illegals let go and they called up.?

 All I do know is SR was found Guilty of having committed certain crimes and went to trial and was found Guilty and sentenced. there are those who say he shouldnt have gotten any time , others 27 yrs was too much. I have posted I have no idea what the Guidelines call for and its known like in traffic court once you plead Not guilty and are found Guilty that the judge is no longer fixed to have the fine be what it would have been had the person pleaded Guilty at the beginning. If you are involved in a car accident and the ins company offers you say $5k and you and your lawyer feel its worth say $20k and go to trial and get $1k thats it , you cant go back and say OK I will take the $5k you offered me , well you can but it wont help you.

 I too hope SR wins his Appeal but still feel he had his day in Court and unfortuanely it went against him, Im sure everyone involved never saw that coming and thought as many on here have said it would be only a Slap on the wrist and they would either move on to a new venture or try and get the Company back on its feet. I honestly dont think anyone saw 27 yrs or even 5 yrs in the cards.

 again i have no idea why the community is and was asked to foot the legal bill while the family still has assets worth Millions, it was a family business so let them 1st use their assests then come asking the community for help. I dont mean they should be penniless or close to it, but yes the vast majority of what they have should have been used and I understand that is not the case
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:11:33 PM by steve2 »

Offline Avid Reader

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4002
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: Starwood Gold, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Silver, National Executive
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2010, 04:49:14 PM »

 again i have no idea why the community is and was asked to foot the legal bill while the family still has assets worth Millions, it was a family business so let them 1st use their assests then come asking the community for help. I dont mean they should be penniless or close to it, but yes the vast majority of what they have should have been used and I understand that is not the case

Just curious, how do you know this?

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2010, 05:52:23 PM »
Just curious, how do you know this?



 #1 his brother-in-law is the notorious under Federal indictment Rabbi Yehosua Balkany preious owner of Beis Yakov of Brooklyn on 49th St BP which was sold to I believe Satmar for $15M. Balkany was also a partner in Agripprocessors and if I remember correctly the owner of the land out in Iowa

 SRs brother Moshe has been twice convicted himself

 the house on the corner I think its 55th & 15th in BP is a Rubashkin owned house as well I believe the plot that was next to it(house)

 so these 2 couldnt do anything cause you need someone that is clean in case anything hits the fan. so SR was the fall (safe) guy.

 You cant look at just SR alone but you need to see the whole pic, his bro and bil are anything but clean and into it for millions, could be the govt wanted to get the family however they could like I posted above they got Capone on tax evasion and threw away the key, so they went after Agriprocessors and Agri put SR as their main guy so it was SR that will shoulder what they thought would be as most here claim just a slap on the wrist and will serve a few months and everything will be rosy business wise and $$ wise. But the Govt wasnt playing that way

 alot of peopel will parked their assests in their kids and grandkids names, I know people whose grandkids are millionaires even thou they arent even 5 yrs old yet.

So maybe SR himself doesnt have but SR didnt own Agri it was afamily business thusly all the owners and officers of Agri should step up to teh plate to cover the costs but that will mean having to paying lets say 100s of 1000s if not millions. so lets get teh Olam to give what ever and its that much more we will be left with.

 Im not saying this is or was SRs plan but it seems to be the plan of the family, so when I said SR deserved a long sentence since he represents Agri and did the crime using his name then yes if you do the crime be preparred to do the time

 http://www.vosizneias.com/49718/2010/02/19/borough-park-ny-rabbi-balkany-accusation-of-extorting-charitable-donations

 http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/August03/balkanyrelease.pdf

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/27108403/Balkany-Milton-Complaint

 what it adds up to years of having made enough people want to take you down and thusly when given the chance they will do so on whatever they can get you on

 

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2010, 05:59:33 PM »
 http://frumscandals.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/11/

 http://www.justice.gov/usao/pae/News/Pr/2007/sep/rubashkinrelease.pdf

 I can go on and on these guys havent done anything they havent been doing for years and years and Im sure the $$$ are stashed away nice and sound

Offline Avid Reader

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4002
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: Starwood Gold, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Silver, National Executive
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2010, 08:38:11 PM »
I see. So in other words, you don't. Your assuming. I find it far more logical that when thousands of people are gathering together to raise funds for Sholom Rubashkin and family, there's a good reason for it.

I just made my donation. Fellow brothers and sisters Rachmonim B'nie Rachmonim, please do the same.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2010, 11:07:36 PM »
I see. So in other words, you don't. Your assuming. I find it far more logical that when thousands of people are gathering together to raise funds for Sholom Rubashkin and family, there's a good reason for it.

I just made my donation. Fellow brothers and sisters Rachmonim B'nie Rachmonim, please do the same.

 what can I say Im totally surprised that a Chabnik supports the cause and doesnt care what the reasons behind things maybe

 the only qusetion is will either the C of A or SC take it up and if they do what the outcome will be and unless the Family stays completely clean going forward the Govt will be back after them if it ends up not succeeding this time

 My hope is SR gets a reasonable sentence and the Family stays Clean

Offline Avid Reader

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4002
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: Starwood Gold, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Silver, National Executive
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2010, 12:06:33 AM »
Steve, you seem more useful around other places (perhaps outside some club...).

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2010, 12:57:07 AM »
Steve, you seem more useful around other places (perhaps outside some club...).

 but are you useful at all? at least I am outside some club somewhere LoL

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4957
  • Total likes: 131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2010, 01:50:48 AM »

 #1 his brother-in-law is the notorious under Federal indictment Rabbi Yehosua Balkany preious owner of Beis Yakov of Brooklyn on 49th St BP which was sold to I believe Satmar for $15M. Balkany was also a partner in Agripprocessors and if I remember correctly the owner of the land out in Iowa
Not Satmar, BOBOV 45TH STREET.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2010, 02:04:36 AM »
Not Satmar, BOBOV 45TH STREET.

 no Bobov is 15th and 45th or the spilt off is

 Balkany was on 49th and on the corner was Temple Emanual which was thrown down and thats where I believe they put up their Succah and is a parking lot till they  build a new building.

15th & 45th is Bais Yakov of Boro Park High School, Balkany had Bais Yakov of Brooklyn I think was the official name, there are numerous BYs all over BP that arent connected to one another. But he used that BY of his and took millions for different govt programs that he wasnt entitled to and although he was able to get some of the charges over the yrs dropped via his policital connections he had with The White House etc it got too hot and he had to bail out and close up shop or else

Offline Avid Reader

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 4002
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
  • Programs: Starwood Gold, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Silver, National Executive
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2010, 11:08:35 AM »
but are you useful at all? at least I am outside some club somewhere LoL

Nice. I'll keep donating to the Rubashkin fund. You keep staying outside that club.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2010, 11:37:24 AM »
Nice. I'll keep donating to the Rubashkin fund. You keep staying outside that club.

 no problem except I havent stayed outside any club in over 2 yrs, but if anyone feels its the right to  donate their $$ to pay his bills and for whatever they use it for, go right ahead I wont be till I see proff that this time the family wasnt up to their old games and if history which tends to repeat itself is correct then its the same old game being played once again, except it seems this time  the family has lost.

that said even if hes Guilty and deserves jail time, I have no problem with them trying to beat the rap as they were successful doing many times previous to this one.

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4957
  • Total likes: 131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2010, 01:06:57 AM »
no Bobov is 15th and 45th or the spilt off is

 Balkany was on 49th and on the corner was Temple Emanual which was thrown down and thats where I believe they put up their Succah and is a parking lot till they  build a new building.

15th & 45th is Bais Yakov of Boro Park High School, Balkany had Bais Yakov of Brooklyn I think was the official name, there are numerous BYs all over BP that arent connected to one another. But he used that BY of his and took millions for different govt programs that he wasnt entitled to and although he was able to get some of the charges over the yrs dropped via his policital connections he had with The White House etc it got too hot and he had to bail out and close up shop or else
No. Bobov 45 now uses the Balkany building. And the sukkah that just was on 14 & 49 is also from Bobov 45th street.

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
Re: Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2010, 10:56:38 AM »
No. Bobov 45 now uses the Balkany building. And the sukkah that just was on 14 & 49 is also from Bobov 45th street.

 Thanks for correcting me

But the end result is still the same that Balkany made out like a bandit when he sold the properties, which I have no problem with in and of itself. The problem is he was a partner of Agriprocessors and as such should step up to the plate as should the other family members that have $$$$ and pay for SRs expensives rather then put it onto the Olam

Offline steve2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 2077
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: outside some Club
1st motion for a retrial thrown out
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2010, 09:09:54 PM »
 Guess its onto the Court of Appeals or Supreme Court, but you 1st had to do step 1 before going to the others, and I doubt they thought they would have heard anything else but what they did

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/73472/Judge-Denies-New-Trial-for-Rubashkin.html