Chaikel? Is that steve2 posting under your name?
According to steve2's system, everyone on this forum who applied for a cc and increased on the application form his annual income by $1000*, and gets caught, should serve time, as its a crime. (You sign that all you filled in and checked/crossed is correct).
Like wise, crossing a street when its red is a crime.
Ponzyschemes (done lekatchila) to rob people of their money, or e.g. someone telling the bank that he earns more to get a bigger loan, and with the full intention to pay back*, these are all crimes.
However, they vary in my opinion between a $100 fine to 100 years in prison.
If you can't differentiate, then we have a problem.
(*) both cases with an asterisk are about the same: the cc application, I'm sure quite a few members played around with, and case number 2, trying to get a bigger loan SR did...
I just asked a simple question. I'm implying anyone deserves anything or not. Just asking for someone to explain why some people deserve to be convicted for committing a crime and others aren't. Is there a difference between stealing and whatever it was SR did (interestingly SR can also stand for Spinke Rebbe). Morally maybe, legally all three committed crimes. Whether it's loitering or manslaughter (
for those who get that) it can carry a jail sentence.
I dont want to get involved again, as its easy to burn my fingers here. I do not agree to steve in all. But i must say it again, he did commit a crime. He forged documents. Now you might say, everybody does that, do get credit. Well, that does not make it right. I think a major fact that people overlook here, is, that he commited a crime. The sentencing and reason why he was picked on, was unfair and probably biased, but they had a valid reason to charge him. I didnt mention the minors, as its not clear if he knew about it or not. The reason, why all jews incl. Me line up for him, is that we feel his punishment was to harsh since he was a jew or since he was picked on because of shechita. If he would have had a one year sentence, people would have understood. People also understood, when the spinka rebbe was sent to jail. But if the spinka rebbe would have goten 30 years, jews would also scream, as we defend our brother when they are not treated right. Does he deserve to sit in jail? I dont know and dont want to decide this, if most other guys get away with it he should as well. As long as his sentence is as it is, he was wronged and people will support him as clal yosroel. He did alot for shechita and kosher meat in america and we have to have hakoras hatoiv for that, even if he might have made mistakes on the way.
Yes Chuchem, well put. That was my point. He committed a crime.
Is he being treated unfairly? I think that's very possible, yet I am not well versed in the American justice system, yet alone sentencing terms. If jaywalking held a 30 year maximum, and someone jaywalked and got the maximum, some may consider it unfair, but the judge definitely didn't do anything wrong. He may have reasons to throw the book at him (still talking about Mr. Jaywalker). Maybe the judge saw other "small crimes" on the persons record and decided to teach him a lesson. Maybe the judge was just tired of saw many people jaywalking, and decided to set an example. Maybe he woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Maybe he doesn't like the guys haircut (still talking about the jaywalker). If you don't agree with the law or the sentencing terms you should be contacting lawmakers and try to get it changed, but a law is a law, and it carries whatever time it carries.
Now frankly I know very little about this case (please don't say "you even admit you don't know about this case", I'm not really saying much about this specific case) but I think we can all agree that he committed a crime.
Did he get to much time? Well that's doesn't depend on personal opinion, there is a system in place to decide that. Is that system flawed? Yes. But that doesn't mean that it should be up for a public vote.
All that aside, as Fellow Jews, we have a responsibility that comes before almost everything else, called "Pidyon shevuyim". Which means (as I understand it) we have a responsibility to every Jew who gets locked up, to do anything and everything possible to get them out.
From what I know about this story, he got way to much time. Unfortunately my opinion has zero impact on what is or isn't a crime, which crimes carry jail time, or the amount of time one gets for their crime.
I daven and hope that he will be out soon.