Married men wear a ring to the office?

[shlaros228]

I'm well aware that there are Poskim who are Matir under certain circumstances. I know that my own Rav's would never permit it, but I understand and agree that there are those who are Matir.

However, my point is an entirely different one:

WHY, that's right, WHY are you looking for the Heter?

Is it because you will LOSE the business from this client, or is it because you are ASHAMED of not shaking her hand?

Think long and hard about this.

i assume your rav never worked in public accounting

[jj1000]

I want to add a poll, what should the options be?

Do you shake hands with the opposite gender?

-Yes, It's never a problem problem

-No, Except when there is a life at risk obviously

-Yes, if it is in a business setting

-Yes, if my job/deal depends on it

Look good?

[Ergel]

I'm well aware that there are Poskim who are Matir under certain circumstances. I know that my own Rav's would never permit it, but I understand and agree that there are those who are Matir.

However, my point is an entirely different one:

WHY, that's right, WHY are you looking for the Heter?

Is it because you will LOSE the business from this client, or is it because you are ASHAMED of not shaking her hand?

Think long and hard about this.

If a posek says something is mutar, and not as a kula but that it's muttar-is that called looking for a heter?

[CountValentine]

Look good?

Yup, my option is listed. 

[MarkS]

-No, Except when there is a life at risk obviously
Look good?

You've got a whole bunch of yes choices, how about some more no's.

No - and it's never really important/necessary in my environment
No - And I often have to decline shaking hands with women which makes both of us uncomfortable.
No  - And I often have to decline shaking hands with women but do it gracefully with no detrimental experiences.

[zale]

If a posek says something is mutar, and not as a kula but that it's muttar-is that called looking for a heter?

If the case is not black-and-white, and there are opposing Poskim, then yes, you would need to ask your Rav for a Heter. Much like one asks their Rav for a heter for birth control.

[LA2NYC]

Sorry, I stand corrected.  She's a goy, embarrass her all you want.

The great great majority BH have their heads screwed on straight, but there's a reason why some people aren't so fond of parts of the RW world....this might have something to do with it.

that's not what I meant.

So what did you mean?

WHY, that's right, WHY are you looking for the Heter?

Is it because you will LOSE the business from this client, or is it because you are ASHAMED of not shaking her hand?

Think long and hard about this.

1) Will you lose this immediate deal/transaction? Probably not.  Will it leave a lasting impression and have them think twice about doing business with you when others are equally available? Almost definitely.
2) Have you ever davened in an airport?  Do you pull out tallis and tefillin in the middle of the waiting area with everyone around you, or do you walk to a less populated area/corner?  Is that because you're ASHAMED? No, it's because you're balancing your religion with normalcy.  There's sufficient rabbinic clout which allows shaking hands in this context to relieve that shaming of others that would go on should you not shake.

[CountValentine]

You've got a whole bunch of yes choices, how about some more no's.

When someone starts a poll it is natural for them to try and slant the choices to the result they want. 

[Moishel]

I'm well aware that there are Poskim who are Matir under certain circumstances. I know that my own Rav's would never permit it, but I understand and agree that there are those who are Matir.

However, my point is an entirely different one:

WHY, that's right, WHY are you looking for the Heter?

Is it because you will LOSE the business from this client, or is it because you are ASHAMED of not shaking her hand?

Think long and hard about this.

WHY do you look for a heter to sell your chometz?
WHY do you look for a heter to make an eruv?
WHY do you look for a heter to make a Pruzbul?
WHY do you look for a heter to cook from Yom Tov to Shabbos?

Need I go on?

Nothing to be ashamed, all those poskim I quoted earlier understood that one's job doesn't need to be on the line to be matir something that is essentially mutar, feeling "awkward" and not insulting a human being is reason enough.

[MarkS]

This would make the poll choices too complicated but it seems by large the MO/YU community follows their poskim to shake hands and the (whatever the term for the opposite of MO/YU) community follows their poskim not to.

Nothing to be ashamed, all those poskim I quoted earlier understood that one's job doesn't need to be on the line to be matir something that is essentially mutar, feeling "awkward" and not insulting a human being is reason enough.

Do you truthfully feel your job is on the line in regard to this? I've never felt this way - it is more difficult when dealing with a female partner at my firm or when with a client in front of one of the partners at my firm but I've never felt like my job was affected by it in any way.

If your follow up to avoiding the handshake is by avoiding any discussion with said female then possible. But if you demonstrate through conversation that you are normal and can be professional and friendly without physically touching I've never felt an issue.

[Moishel]

MO's are frum?

[Ergel]

WHY do you look for a heter to sell your chometz?

I don't

WHY do you look for a heter to make an eruv?

I don't

WHY do you look for a heter to make a Pruzbul?

I don't

WHY do you look for a heter to cook from Yom Tov to Shabbos?

It's not a kula, it's meikar hadin

Need I go on?

Nothing to be ashamed, all those poskim I quoted earlier understood that one's job doesn't need to be on the line to be matir something that is essentially mutar, feeling "awkward" and not insulting a human being is reason enough.

There is a clear line between things which are kula's and things which are mutar meikar hadin. You can ask your posek which he is telling you.

[YankyDoodle]

MO's are frum?

No, they're mostly goyim, with a few born-agains.

We really need a sarcasm font.

[CountValentine]

MO's are frum?

What do Money Orders have to do with this?

[MarkS]

What do Money Orders have to do with this?

Modern Orthodox/Yeshiva University

[zale]

So what did you mean?

1) Will you lose this immediate deal/transaction? Probably not.  Will it leave a lasting impression and have them think twice about doing business with you when others are equally available? Almost definitely.

"Almost definitively". So, you are not talking from factual experience, but from your own perception of what the client will do in the future. In my experience you are totally wrong. If you do a good job, they will not only praise you to high-heavens, but they will refer other people to you as well, and yes, they will come back for more.

2) Have you ever davened in an airport?  Do you pull out tallis and tefillin in the middle of the waiting area with everyone around you, or do you walk to a less populated area/corner?  Is that because you're ASHAMED? No, it's because you're balancing your religion with normalcy.  There's sufficient rabbinic clout which allows shaking hands in this context to relieve that shaming of others that would go on should you not shake.

Lol, actually, I have, and I have not gone to a corner unless it would be disrupting to stand in an aisle where people are trying to walk by. If I'm in a wide aisle, I Daven right there and then. There is no question that if you want to make a Minyan in the airport, you should go to a corner, as it would most certainly disrupt.

The "shaming of others" claim doesn't sit right with me. Are you careful about not shaming others in other circumstances?

[Ergel]

Lol, actually, I have, and I have not gone to a corner unless it would be disrupting to stand in an aisle where people are trying to walk by. If I'm in a wide aisle, I Daven right there and then. There is no question that if you want to make a Minyan in the airport, you should go to a corner, as it would most certainly disrupt.

Agreed. Although I often search for a corner so that it is more quiet and I can concentrate better

The "shaming of others" claim doesn't sit right with me. Are you careful about not shaming others in other circumstances?

I would hope so

[zale]

What do Money Orders have to do with this?

Lol, not "frum", "forum" members do not do money orders. It's credit card or bust. 

[Moishel]

Have you ever handed over a Money Order to the opposite sex? it's a Shaile of אתנן.

[zale]

Have you ever handed over a Money Order to the opposite sex? it's a Shaile of אתנן.

Not if it's your wife. And it's usually cash or cc anyway