Married men wear a ring to the office?

[churnbabychurn]

I don't think they are ashamed of Yiddishkeit; they are ashamed to be confused with chareidim.

same thing

[Aaaron]

You like my fifth poll option? Because that's what I would do if I had a ring.

That's how I lost mine 

same thing

No, it's not.

[Menachem613]

same thing

You wish.

[shlaros228]

they take it as a virtue. They dress like them, use non Jewish names etc. This is their hashkafa. Don't let them know that you are different in anyway.

are you serious?  you are basically talking about me and the inaccuracy and offensiveness of your reality is absurd.  bc i wear colored shirts and jeans means im ashamed to be an orthodox jew?

the real shame is that you boil down judaism to clothing and names as opposed to dogma, practice and ethic.

ignorance par excellence 

but no offense of course

[Menachem613]

are you serious?  you are basically talking about me and the inaccuracy and offensiveness of your reality is absurd.  bc i wear colored shirts and jeans means im ashamed to be an orthodox jew?

the real shame is that you boil down judaism to clothing and names as opposed to dogma, practice and ethic.

ignorance par excellence 

but no offense of course

Unfortunately, the average DDF member agrees with him as do most Chareidim. They have nothing but contempt for MO.

[LA2NYC]

Yes but generally are deeply ashamed of yidishkeit in effort to blend in and become a light to the nations...

they take it as a virtue. They dress like them, use non Jewish names etc. This is their hashkafa. Don't let them know that you are different in anyway.

You don't realize this is offensive?  You don't see any issue saying this in a public forum maligning hundreds of thousands of Jews? Even though I may disagree with how you live your life, do I need to state it in public?

[churnbabychurn]

You wish.

to illustrate my point: I once a guest in a small Modern Orthodox community in North Jersey for shabbos. I walk to shul on shabbos morning wearing my talis, all the non Jews that I passed by greeted me with respect . Four separate members of the Jewish  community approach and either angrily or mockingly commented on my wearing a talis in public. They were ashamed, deeply ashamed of the talis, that G-d forbid they should realize that we are different . This is what they teach in the modern orthodox communities and yu.
We must blend with the nations and not show them that we're different in order that they should like us and we should be a light upon them... Or something like that...

[ushdadude]

Yes but generally are deeply ashamed of yidishkeit in effort to blend in and become a light to the nations...

I am not MO but you just clarified in my mind that I can never trust anything you write ever again. Thanks for that
I am deeply ashamed of your writings

[churnbabychurn]

You don't realize this is offensive?  You don't see any issue saying this in a public forum maligning hundreds of thousands of Jews? Even though I may disagree with how you live your life, do I need to state it in public?

I didn't see any protest upthread when ppl were calling chareidim who don't shake names...

Don't mean to offend anyone. Just discussing the general hashkafa, NOT the wonderful ppl!

[Menachem613]

to illustrate my point: I once a guest in a small Modern Orthodox community in North Jersey for shabbos. I walk to shul on shabbos morning wearing my talis, all the non Jews that I passed by greeted me with respect . Four separate members of the Jewish  community approach and either angrily or mockingly commented on my wearing a talis in public. They were ashamed, deeply ashamed of the talis, that G-d forbid they should realize that we are different . This is what they teach in the modern orthodox communities and yu.
We must blend with the nations and not show them that we're different in order that they should like us and we should be a light upon them... Or something like that...

Rabbi Y Kaminetzky was MO???

[LA2NYC]

I didn't see any protest upthread when ppl were calling chareidim who don't shake names...

Don't mean to offend anyone. Just discussing the general hashkafa, NOT the wonderful ppl!

1) May have been others, but I know I didn't use any language like that.
2) Even if someone did, because they called you names you call them names back? What are we, two years old here?

[Achas Veachas]

Unfortunately, the average DDF member agrees with him as do most Chareidim. They have nothing but contempt for MO.

Way for over-generalizations. Disagree maybe but contempt?

[lunatic]

tis so. But at least we'll get some picture of it.

Henche - can you define "must" for us?
Likely most people that say they :must shake hands" will not actually get fired for not doing so, though there would be some sort of repercussions

[meshugener]

Everyone here is so quick to judge each other.

+1
And this post explains it good:

Wow, everyone needs to just chill out a bit.

There are 2 groups of ppl:
1) Those who don't often come in contact with women or don't work in a field that shaking is considered "a must".
2) Those who do come in contact with women and work in a field that shaking is considered "a must".

The large majority of #1 say that one should be proud of their Judaism and not shake (most shakers prob. belonged to this group prior to entering their field of work).
The large majority of #2 say that there is sufficient room in halacha to be meikal and therefore they make the best of a difficult scenario. (most non-shakers prob. would belong to this group if in the future they entered such a field).

There are a small number of shakers who do not work in a field where shaking is "a must" (that includes only CV  )
There are a small number of non-shakers who work in a field where shaking is "a must" they either don't have a heter from a rav or believe that being "proud of their Judasim" trumps the awkwardness and embarrassment that follows.

Live and let live baby!

[meshugener]

What do Money Orders have to do with this?

ALOL!!!!

[churnbabychurn]

Ok, I'm Sorry

I honestly did not mean to offend anyone, I did make a general comment about the way I personally perceive the Modern orthodox hashkofas hachaim. I dont think that I am better then anyone. I was expecting responses debating the hashkafa and how it applies to hand shakes. Did not expect guys to get insulted!

Thought we had thicker skins, I certainly do!

Sorry!

[Menachem613]

Way for over-generalizations. Disagree maybe but contempt?

Do you think member churnbabychurn is atypical?

[Aaaron]

To break it down simply:

Yeshivish/Chareidi don't like/agree with the MO hashkafa as they feel it's diluted Judaism.

MO/YU don't like the Chareidi hashkafa of elitism and xenophobia as they feel it's not conducive to harboring good feelings from others, among other things.

[henche]

Henche - can you define "must" for us?
Likely most people that say they :must shake hands" will not actually get fired for not doing so, though there would be some sort of repercussions

It basically means grape juice. It's just a fancier way of saying it. If you put it in barrels for a few years, it becomes balsamic vinegar.

[churnbabychurn]

Rabbi Y Kaminetzky was MO???

I agree that wearing a talis in public is debatable.
But not because it will insult the JEWS! The problem is supposed to be the non jews, no?