Poll

Do you shake hands with the opposite gender at work?

Yes, and I work in an environment where shaking hands is "a must".
19 (17.1%)
No, and I work in an environment where shaking hands is "a must".
21 (18.9%)
Yes, and I don't work in an environment where shaking hands is "a must"
19 (17.1%)
No, and I don't work in an environment where shaking hands is "a must"
44 (39.6%)
I wear a ring, and I like to take it off and spin it on my desk.
8 (7.2%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Author Topic: Married men wear a ring to the office?  (Read 79373 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #320 on: January 16, 2014, 02:27:36 PM »
can you carry there?
No idea. The place that i was in I actually discussed the eiruv with the Rabbi, after going through the long laundry list of kulos that had to be relied on to make the eiruv in question kosher he actually told me that "its not for me"...

Offline SamKey

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #321 on: January 16, 2014, 02:29:39 PM »
This is one of the best threads ever. I am floored that this is over a handshake.
Can't wait to hear what you'd say about kol isha

Offline Moishel

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #322 on: January 16, 2014, 02:31:39 PM »
+1
Plus onning yourself, is that as bad as liking yourself on facebook?

Re the poll that was added, where's the option for "No, and I work in an environment where shaking hands is "a must not!"?

Can't wait to hear what you'd say about kol isha
You forgot about the hair shaving thread?

Offline henche

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #323 on: January 16, 2014, 02:33:55 PM »
I know people that didn't walk at their law school graduation because they'd have to shake the female dean's hand on stage.

Why not just tell the dean beforehand that you aren't going to shake? (I totally can't remember what happened at mine, but I think it's ok if you're wearing a gown and therefore dressed like a woman anyway)

Offline shlaros228

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #324 on: January 16, 2014, 02:35:15 PM »
Why not just tell the dean beforehand that you aren't going to shake? (I totally can't remember what happened at mine, but I think it's ok if you're wearing a gown and therefore dressed like a woman anyway)

+1

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #325 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:38 PM »
Why not just tell the dean beforehand that you aren't going to shake? (I totally can't remember what happened at mine, but I think it's ok if you're wearing a gown and therefore dressed like a woman anyway)

It would look very odd, with everyone else stopping halfway across the stage to shake her hand, and you just walk right past her.  Although it's just speculation.  They may just have used that as an excuse not to walk.

Offline SamKey

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #326 on: January 16, 2014, 02:42:25 PM »
From R' Gil Student at Hirhurim - http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2005/07/shaking-hands-with-women.html:

II. Shaking and Enjoying

Is there sufficient pleasure in shaking a woman's hand to render it prohibited, even according to the Shakh? R. Moshe Feinstein repeatedly (Iggeros Moshe, Orah Hayim vol. 1 no. 113; Even Ha-Ezer vol. 1 no. 56) ruled that a man enjoys shaking a woman's hand and it is therefore prohibited.

As someone who has been shaking women's hands for years, I simply cannot understand his reasoning. A quick handshake yields no pleasure, and is so quick that it cannot even warm a cold hand. It also indicates no closeness between the two parties and is the equivalent of saying "Hello." R. Joseph B. Soloveitchik is quoted as having permitted shaking a woman's hand when necessary, and I once went to the trouble of confirming this from people who asked him directly. R. Mordechai Willig recommends what he calls a "dead fish" handshake -- shaking with a limp hand.

Granted, all agree that someone who does feel pleasure from a handshake should refrain from doing so. But a simple handshake does not, normally, give any pleasure.

I would add that this certainly varies based on culture and in some places a handshake might, indeed, be intended to demonstrate affection or closeness. In that case, it would also be forbidden. In this vein, R. Yosef Hayim of Baghdad (Od Yosef Hai 1, Shofetim) permits a woman kissing a man's hand but not shaking it, because in his culture the latter was considered an affectionate embrace.


I once heard a rabbi, who had previously worked for the OU, speak on this issue. He said that he could not understand why many of his former colleagues would shake hands with women while he went to amazing lengths to avoid shaking hands with women on the few occasions in which it arose. Had he only bothered to ask his colleagues, some of whom can learn circles around him, he might have recognized that (they and) their rabbinic mentors permit this when necessary. (NOTE that this is not intended to imply an OU policy on the subject or that everyone at the OU shakes hands with women.)
I find this to be kefira. It reminds me of what the Satmar Rav Z"L said about "litvish" dating "How many aveiros did they have to commit for this not to have an effect on them"
Vhameivin Yavin

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #327 on: January 16, 2014, 02:44:24 PM »

I find this to be kefira. It reminds me of what the Satmar Rav Z"L said about "litvish" dating "How many aveiros did they have to commit for this not to have an effect on them"
Vhameivin Yavin

Which one of the foundations of Judaism does it contradict?

Offline Crazy tools

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #328 on: January 16, 2014, 02:48:45 PM »
I heard this line think it fits in well here.
" Don't judge me because I sin differently then you"

Offline Ergel

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #329 on: January 16, 2014, 02:49:30 PM »
I find this to be kefira.
You may disagree, but kefira? ???
Quote
It reminds me of what the Satmar Rav Z"L said about "litvish" dating "How many aveiros did they have to commit for this not to have an effect on them"
Vhameivin Yavin
Are you saying Gil Student is a ba'al aveiros. Not sure what is worse-publicly defaming thousands of Jews or calling a single Jew a ba'al aveiros
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #330 on: January 16, 2014, 02:51:58 PM »
Plus onning yourself, is that as bad as liking yourself on facebook?


lol...i didn't +1 myself...i +1ed my idea. That's how strongly I feel about it.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #331 on: January 16, 2014, 02:53:52 PM »
The "shaming of others" claim doesn't sit right with me. Are you careful about not shaming others in other circumstances?
This comment is bothering me. You're not?
Bump
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline henche

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #332 on: January 16, 2014, 02:58:42 PM »
I find this to be kefira. It reminds me of what the Satmar Rav Z"L said about "litvish" dating "How many aveiros did they have to commit for this not to have an effect on them"
Vhameivin Yavin

Agreed. If he said he thinks it isn't very much hanaah-ok. But that he never feels any hanaah? Liar.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #333 on: January 16, 2014, 02:59:18 PM »
the entire hand shaking thing is one huge tangent.

Ive been working in the banking world for a bunch of years now, IMHO here is the deal:

Full disclosure - i wear no yarmulke or ring to work, nor do i have a beard.

Ring: I think the place this is most impactful is when the team goes out for drinks.  things could get a bit out of control and the key is to make an early exit.  Using marriage as an early exit excuse is a good way to go.

Hand-Shaking: point blank, everyone should get their mind out of the gutter and shake the hand like it was a man's.  Its not derech chibba and the notion that it could lead to an affair if you shake a woman's hand in the office is absurd.  Having deep conversations is a much more likely way to lead to an affair to begin with.

We do enough weird stuff and make life difficult for our non-ortho co-workers, adding to that by refusing to shake hands, whether by going into a long winded explanation to reflect how its not offensive or making some "oh, im neurotic about touching people" or "I have a cold" BS makes you look even weirder.

I can't tell you how many times Ive been downright embarrassed by the ignorance and sheer idiocy of what some frum ppl.  Of course everyone does dumb and ignorant things, but if everyone knows you are the Jew, its not a good look. 

End of rant
LOL. You're so right. The Rabbis are so dumb! Carrying muktza may lead to Hotzaah? (Gemara + Rambam). Can't pass something to your wife when she's a Nidah? Touching derech chiba (which many great Poskim translate to be a very wide category) may lead to improper relationships? Hearing a woman sing being sensual? The Rabbis were all a big bunch of Pervs! Singing being Nakedness (the translation of ervah)? PERVS! - couldn't hear a girl sing without getting enticed!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 03:04:56 PM by Baruch »

Offline shlaros228

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #334 on: January 16, 2014, 03:04:54 PM »
Agreed. If he said he thinks it isn't very much hanaah-ok. But that he never feels any hanaah? Liar.

thats kfira????

Offline shlaros228

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #335 on: January 16, 2014, 03:05:41 PM »
LOL. You're so right. The Rabbis are so dumb! Carrying muktza may lead to Hotzaah? (Gemara + Rambam). Can't pass something to your wife when she's a Nidah? Touching derech chiba (which many great Poskim translate to be a very wide category) may lead to improper relationships? Hearing a woman sing being sensual? The Rabbis were all a big bunch of Pervs! Singing being Nakedness (the translation of ervah)? PERVS! - couldn't hear a girl sing without getting enticed!

-1

Offline henche

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #336 on: January 16, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »
thats kfira????

Kfira means denying, right?

Offline Baruch

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #337 on: January 16, 2014, 03:08:53 PM »
-1
You sound like all the frum ppl that sound so dumb!

So stupid for thinking that the Chazon Ish and Rav Moshe Feinstein were smarter than them!

Offline Dr Moose

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #338 on: January 16, 2014, 03:09:41 PM »
LOL. You're so right. The Rabbis are so dumb! Carrying muktza may lead to Hotzaah? (Gemara + Rambam). Can't pass something to your wife when she's a Nidah? Touching derech chiba (which many great Poskim translate to be a very wide category) may lead to improper relationships? Hearing a woman sing being sensual? The Rabbis were all a big bunch of Pervs! Singing being Nakedness (the translation of ervah)? PERVS! - couldn't hear a girl sing without getting enticed!
sarcastic?
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Married men wear a ring to the office?
« Reply #339 on: January 16, 2014, 03:11:56 PM »
sarcastic?
Of course. Just continuing his rant.