Married men wear a ring to the office?

[Moishel]

No sense in lowering to his level and calling him names. Let's stick to the conceptual arguments and skip the personal stuff, please.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I tried keeping myself civil all along the back and forth, but I just had to call a spade a spade, you can't advocate pluralism, "understanding that there's another side" when you yourself don't practice what you preach and hold different groups of people in lower regard just because they don't see it the way you do. Tolerating the intolerant can only go so far.

[henche]

I frankly am astounded to see how many goyim there are on ddf. I thought it was only CV, but it looks like it's half the board.

[Moishel]

I believe you're just as orthodox as I am (and I'm chassidish, btw).
It's just that your rabbi pasken'd differently than my my rabbi on a few topics.
Just as the litvish shave men's beard and don't shave women's head, but our rabbis told us to shave women's head but not men's beard. And no one believes the litvish are less orthodox than the chassidish.
Same here, as long as you follow what your rabbi told you you're the same Jew as I am.

Meshug, you're not the norm, rather the anomaly. Most ultra orthodox consider the MO to be less Jewish, getting the easy way out, and watering it down. They won't eat their hechsherim, and don't respect their rabbanim.

As the good book says:

One who keeps more then you is fanatic, and one who keeps less is just a Sheigetz.

[Freddie]

Meshug, you're not the norm, rather the anomaly. Most ultra orthodox consider the MO to be less Jewish, getting the easy way out, and watering it down. They won't eat their hechsherim, and don't respect their rabbanim.

"Less Jewish"? That's like "kind of pregnant."

[sky121]

"Less Jewish"? That's like "kind of pregnant."

We can assume he meant less religious.

[Moishel]

Yes we can.

[Freddie]

We can assume he meant less religious.

Then say that. Words have meaning. Either you believe every Yid has the same neshama or you don't. Religious is a separate issue. Let's be careful with how we use words.

[aygart]

i believe in college and secular education as a end unto itself, but if others dont and can find away to support their community, best of luck

What does whether college is an end unto itself or an end to a means have to do with ability to support a community?

[CountValentine]

I frankly am astounded to see how many goyim there are on ddf. I thought it was only CV, but it looks like it's half the board.

Did you just slam half the Jewish members in this thread or am I reading it wrong?

[Ergel]

Did you just slam half the Jewish members in this thread or am I reading it wrong?

Did you just take something that henche said seriously or am I reading it wrong?

[henche]

Did you just slam half the Jewish members in this thread or am I reading it wrong?

Um, must we be so direct?

[shlaros228]

What does whether college is an end unto itself or an end to a means have to do with ability to support a community?

i think that one of the biggest differences between MO and more to the right is the inherint value of secular education.  I think it has value.

But i was putting that aside and saying that if you disagree, kol hakavod, so long as you can support yourself and your institutions. 

Everyone would anknowledge that in America now, its much easier to make a very good living with a college+ degree. 

its really 2 issues.

I was responding that I do disagree with certain things in the yeshivish/satmar hashkafas, one of the primary being related to secular education.

Separately, it bothers me if people disagree with the value of secular education and subsequently struggle to make a living.  And then come to those who do value that education for money which was largely earned on the back of that same education.

as a result, if you can support yourself, feel free to do whatever you want educationally.  i may disagree, but enjoy it

[CountValentine]

Did you just take something that henche said seriously or am I reading it wrong?

Yes I did.

Um, must we be so direct?

Did not expect that from you.

[henche]

Yes I did.

t'was a joke.

[Freddie]

Did you just slam half the Jewish members in this thread or am I reading it wrong?

He did, and thank you, CV, for pointing it put as a truly objective party.

[LA2NYC]

I frankly am astounded to see how many goyim there are on ddf. I thought it was only CV, but it looks like it's half the board.

Happy to have everyone here!

[shlaros228]

Happy to have everyone here!

except ppl from LA, i hate those ppl.

 

[Achas Veachas]

Meshug, you're not the norm, rather the anomaly. Most ultra orthodox consider the MO to be less Jewish, getting the easy way out, and watering it down. They won't eat their hechsherim, and don't respect their rabbanim.

As the good book says:

Not sure how you can decide whether Meshug is the norm or not (just rad that and realized it sounds kinda funny ). The OU, a MO Hechsher is one of the most reliable Hechsherim out there. Some people have highter standards for Cholov Yisroel, Bishul Yisroel etc. does that mean we look down on the OU? It just means we don't rely on certain Heterim which are perfectly acceptable to others, each one at his level...

[Ergel]

i think that one of the biggest differences between MO and more to the right is the inherint value of secular education.  I think it has value.

Eh. That's true according to some in ideology. To a select few (probably can count on my hands and toes) in practice.

[PlatinumGuy]

The OU, a MO Hechsher

Debatable