Author Topic: Liberal Paradox  (Read 4956 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2014, 10:09:09 PM »
I enjoy drinking also. IMHO alcohol is worse than pot.

In what way?
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Offline Nitantnel

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 10:44:54 PM »
I think the distinction is simple:

No one will smuggle in salt and large sodas. A little push and help from the government to help you stop engaging in these habits may be something that most people would welcome.

However, pot is something that the "help" from the government clearly does not suffice for anything. Instead it leads to an entire unwanted underground industry. Thus, keeping it illegal is counterproductive as was the case with probation.

Offline daganster

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 11:01:30 PM »
I think the distinction is simple:

No one will smuggle in salt and large sodas. A little push and help from the government to help you stop engaging in these habits may be something that most people would welcome.

However, pot is something that the "help" from the government clearly does not suffice for anything. Instead it leads to an entire unwanted underground industry. Thus, keeping it illegal is counterproductive as was the case with probation.
If sodas were illegal mafias would be all over it, that's just the way things work. 

Offline ari2955

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2014, 11:14:40 PM »
I think the distinction is simple:

No one will smuggle in salt and large sodas. A little push and help from the government to help you stop engaging in these habits may be something that most people would welcome.

However, pot is something that the "help" from the government clearly does not suffice for anything. Instead it leads to an entire unwanted underground industry. Thus, keeping it illegal is counterproductive as was the case with probation.
:o If it was really so, why did a 'health board' need to approve this, why not put it on the ballet?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2014, 11:27:37 PM »
I don't think either pot or alcohol is a major national issue. Obesity is our major epidemic. And that's in part because the government subsidies things like corn syrup. At the very least we ought to tax McDonalds.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 12:44:48 AM »
In what way?
The way it impairs ones judgment.
REPOST!!!!!

Offline steeeveknowsbest

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 02:59:39 AM »

Overall, i think that this article has some good points, yet there are few statements in this article that are not true or misleading from what i know.
"This is notable because, whatever else it is, marijuana is not healthy."
This isn't a clear fact at all. There are many indications that marijuana has certain health benefits and there is a dearth of concrete information as to it's health detriments. Basically it seems that it may cause mentally unstable people to become even more unstable. It may possibly impair the normal mental growth of teenagers.Neither of these have been proven in any way, just hypothesized.  And the argument that you can get high and drive is in my opinion not a unhealthy aspect of weed, but a possible abuse of it, and certainly not a reason for it to be illegal.
"  liberals wage political war against genetically modified organisms, french fries and tubby kids, yet stand idly by, or worse,support the legalization of a mind-impairing substance known to be addictive and have deleterious effects on the brain."
Weed is not addictive. It can become a bad habit but is not chemically addictive Calling it addictive is like calling ice cream an addictive substance since after you have had it you crave more.
 It is mind impairing but only while you are high, just like alcohol, and it does have deleterious affects on the brain but so does eating red meat (they both kill comparable amounts of brain cells).

" For many years, health-conscious liberals have waged a deafening, public war against cigarettes. Smoking bans in public places like restaurants and bars have been enacted in states all over the country. Recently, New York City, New Jersey and several other cities and states have extended those bans to include the newest tobacco fad—e-cigarettes. Yet, when it comes to smoking marijuana? Crickets."

Interestingly enough studies have not found any link between marijuana use and lung cancer despite the logical connection to smoking (science has no clue what the difference may be). It is therefor exceedingly easy to make the case that smoking shouldn't be allowed in places that others may have to inhale 2nd hand smoke and be at higher risk of lung cancer, while no evidence to such a risk from 2nd hand (or first hand) marijuana inhalation exists!

That being said, I have never smoked marijuana nor do i think it is a good habit. But i do think it should be legal along with cigs alcohol trans-fats and HUGE softdrinks!!

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 04:23:45 AM »
This article is based on a premise which is simply false.
Quote
The vast amount of social data and medical science on the dangers of marijuana.
Such data doesn't exist. On the contrary, there is plenty of legitimate science showing numerous health benefits of marijuana. It is used to treat glaucoma, pain, seizures, eating disorders....
It is not all good but the positive certainly outweighs the negative by a huge margin.

Marijuana is being legalized for 2 reasons.
1. It has legitimate medical uses.
2. The social and economic costs of keeping so benign illegal make no sense.


Offline meshugener

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 09:55:58 AM »

The thing is, that conservatives are also hypocrites in reverse (want marijuana banned but alcohol, cigarets, soda.. legal).
I think if we believe that goverment shouldn't be dictating what is or isn't good for us, it should apply across the board.
Well said.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2014, 10:06:09 AM »
The thing is, that conservatives are also hypocrites in reverse (want marijuana banned but alcohol, cigarets, soda.. legal).
I think if we believe that government shouldn't be dictating what is or isn't good for us, it should apply across the board.

The onus of proof is on he who wants to change the status quo. While I don't disagree with what you are saying, someone who actively campaigns to make one thing legal and another illegal needs to provide strong arguments supporting that position. There are many things in America that don't necessarily make sense, but inertia being what it is there is less of an argument there IMO.

On the medical side of it, while it has not been studied as extensively as cigarettes or other substances there is a preponderance of medical literature to support the notion that marijuana is detrimental to health in at least a number of categories and detrimental to society in many others. that is not to say that it cannot be legalized in extenuating circumstances as a controlled substance (ala morphine or amphetamines).

Just because certain "evils" are legal does not mean that others should be as well. Like I said status quo is hard to change. I am not saying that eth should be illegal, just the hypocrisy rubs me the wrong way.

Offline avremie

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2014, 12:56:10 PM »
IMHO its not as much as legalization as much as decriminalization its about all the money spent on fighting it which hasn't worked and all the arrests and imprisonment just for possession are a real waste of money (if I may add most of illegal possession arrests are black kids another reason that libs are on this issue - if the law targets a certain group more then other then the law is racist)
As already mentioned child obesity is a real issue especially in poor home its not a good comparison (nobody advocates pot for minors)
Bloomberg is not a ראי' for anything he once had an idea that NYC hospitals should give smaller doses of morphin even though the patient might suffer a little more but as someone already said he's okay with pot.
Liberals tax cigarettes cuz they love taxes. Period. The rest is BS

Offline Ergel

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2014, 01:44:14 PM »
Liberals tax cigarettes cuz they love taxes. Period.
Don't liberals not like taxes?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2014, 01:50:08 PM »
Really? From a two second search...
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=396766
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198903233201203
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/3492159/reload=0;jsessionid=Yq4WVYqWTaTk2FXLqybs.0
http://journal.publications.chestnet.org/article.aspx?articleid=1070829
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.70.6.604

Just a tiny slice of the articles available...
To summarize your articles.

1. Marijuana impairs cognitive function. No news here. It's well known that it takes up to 30 days to fully clear out but once it does, there are no long term effects on cognitive function. (On a side note, this study shows the standard of most studies that are undertaken in the US about pot. IE, it is virtually impossible to get funding unless the point of your study is to show that pot is bad. Lol, they took heavy, constant users and tested them 19 hours after they had last smoked. I could have saved them all that money and told them the results before they even started.)

2. Marijuana during pregnancy is bad. No news here either. I don't think any advocate of marijuana would recommend that a pregnant woman should smoke pot.

3. Smoking marijuana impairs respiratory function. Again, no news. It's commonly accepted that inhaling any combustible substance impairs respiratory function. There are other methods for taking it like vaporizing or eating edibles...

4. Marijuana leads to less commonly accepted behaviors like not going to church, less religiosity, greater tolerance of deviance....
Sounds like the perception of marijuana in the 1970's. Oh wait, that's when the study is from.

Marijuana has been shown to be effective in treating many medical conditions, sometimes even more effective than any other conventional medicine.
Like, ADD/ADHD, glaucoma, chronic pain, HIV/AIDS, cancer, nausea and vomiting, eating disorders, Tourette's, seizures, migraines, multiple sclerosis, IBS and Crohn's, Alzheimers, PMS.....

To say marijuana is all bad and should stay illegal is doing everyone a disservice. Just legalize it and tax it to make the bleeding liberal heart feel better.



Offline avremie

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Re: Liberal Paradox
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 02:13:11 PM »
Don't liberals not like taxes?
I mean liberal Democrats not the old classical liberals what we would today call conservative or libertarian