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Life insurance: If there is someone is relying on your income, you need life insurance.
Your wife should also be insured, even if she doesn't work.  The need to insure her comes from the expenses of replacing her for childcare and housework. And if she does work (or is the breadwinner), then you need to insure her for income replacement - don’t be too macho to insure her.

How much to get?
First figure out how much you live on for real.

One school of thought is to get enough life insurance that you don't use up that payout, only live on the income that money generates.  So to make $80,000 of income at 5%, you need an initial investment (insurance amount) of $1,600,000 or over 1.5 million dollars! This piece of advice makes very little sense in today's low interest rate environment - since to chase a 5% return you need to risk the principal.

A better plan would be to estimate how many years of income replacement or expense coverage you need for each spouse. A big part of the need for income comes from child related expenses, which will end after the children reach a certain age. Or, at younger ages it is reasonable to expect that a widow/widower could get remarried, and therefore won't need as many years. Take all this into consideration and consult a financial adviser if you can afford it.

Another plan.  She'll be able to go to school, or otherwise get set up for a high paying job with a few years of full support.  So you only need a few years’ worth of income.  Let's say $80,000 X 5 years = $400,000.  Realize that her expenses without a husband might be higher than now as a couple.  (babysitter, tutors, etc) 


Term insurance vs Whole life
Term insurance is the cheapest and simplest.  You pay a premium and  if chv”sh the insured person dies, the beneficiary gets the insurance amount. The higher the risk a person is, the higher the premium.  So people with worse health  will pay more than healthy people for the same amount of insurance, and older people will pay more than younger people.
Level term.  One popular type of term insurance has a level premium for a fixed number of years. Many people prefer this to the traditional type of term insurance where the premium each each year pays for coverage only in that year (and as a result the premiums increase every year, because you are aging). In contrast, a level premium term insurance policy has an unchanging premium amount that is guaranteed for a specific number of years. As a result of the design you are overpaying in the early years of the policy to subsidize your cost in the later years. Popular guarantee periods are 10, 20 or 30 years.  As with any insurance, it pays to get one while you are healthy to lock in the lowest rate possible (in general, health only declines, you rarely hear of people getting healthier with age).
Whole life has a level premium that is guaranteed not to increase for as long as you live. Because of insurance laws in the US, this type of insurance policy must always have a "cash value", which is the amount of money you get back if you cancel the policy. That makes Whole Life a much more expensive choice relative to pure insurance coverage (where you'd get nothing back if you cancel) and therefore a bad choice for most people who are not rich (this is complicated to explain in great detail, but it is an effective summary of who is most likely to see good value in buying Whole Life). One fringe benefit of having a cash value in Whole Life is that you have saved money which can be used for your retirement or any other purpose if you are still alive.  For most people though, other savings vehicles will be better.
Universal life is very similar to whole life, in that it is meant to provide insurance coverage for as long as you live (as opposed to Term, which is meant to for a short to medium period of time). The most important difference is that the premium rates for Universal Life are not guaranteed, unlike Whole Life which is completely guaranteed. The concept behind Universal Life is that the insurance company tells you all the charges you are paying for and lets you pay as much or as little as you want for the coverage. Anything extra that you pay goes into an account that can earn interest, and as long as that account doesn't run out of money you stay insured.
Variable Life is an offshoot of Universal Life. The difference is that instead of the extra money going into an account that earns interest, you can choose to invest the extra money in mutual funds. Take my word as an expert in insurance that Variable Universal Life is only for the most investment oriented people (meaning that they barely care at all about the insurance part of the policy). If you are trying to decide on Term or Variable, the answer is always Term.

How long a Term Insurance companies make tons of money on people who buy 30 year terms and then let it lapse after 10 years, since they paid 30 year rates for those 10 years.  Consider a long term Term the equivalent of insuring against the possibility you will be uninsurable in 10 years.  Consider also that you would be able to convert the short term Term into a whole life policy at that time regardless of insurability.

Life insurance has some very favorable tax treatment on the cash value (or account value), which is a big selling point, especially for people in certain tax brackets who have all but run out of tax advantaged places to save money. The exact details are very technical and could not be fairly explained without making this wiki extremely long.

Reevaluate your situation and the amount of insurance periodically.  As things change- income, spending, family additions-  the amount of coverage you need will need tweaking.

In addition to buying insurance, don't forget to set up plans for how your beneficiaries can use the insurance money to live with their needs taken care of. Providing for your family in case of a tragic event is perhaps as selfless an act as a person can do, don't do it halfway! Make sure there will be money AND a plan for how to live on it. In my experience I have seen all types of unqualified people get involved with "helping" a family live off huge amounts of money and getting it wrong 10 times out of 10.

Plan for guardians to care for your children if cv"sh both parents are unavailable.


« Last edited by henche on July 09, 2014, 10:40:28 PM »

Author Topic: Do you have life insurance?  (Read 67589 times)

Offline EJB

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #220 on: July 09, 2014, 07:19:45 PM »


You mean the same spouse who weeks earlier was either supporting herself or living with her parents?

What has materially changed between now and then?

Yes, I mean that spouse. If her parents are super wealthy, perhaps you're right. But her parents are not planning that they may have to cover her expenses again. They may no longer have room for her to live full time in the house (if lived there previously). She may have to pay 10k for medical insurance. etc.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #221 on: July 09, 2014, 07:23:31 PM »
+1, unless he plans on gaining a lot of weight during shana rishona.

You can possibly prevent yourself from gaining weight, but you can't protect yourself from declining health. Or from ageing. The rule with any insurance is to buy it BEFORE you need it, because that's when its cheaper for you. Waiting until your risk level increases is just short sighted. Like I said, if you plan to have kids then plan all the way.

Offline DP7

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #222 on: July 09, 2014, 07:27:33 PM »
Could I start a debate about LI or there's already too much going on DDF to handle that?

No but you can apparently bring old ones back to life. Read previous pages in thread.

I will find out soon and report back, you may be right that its from more recent. I'm not chasidish tho.

I guess both!
Just had a kid, and just started thinking about it.
My wife doesn't like thinking about it:)

I was also just told by a family member who is a broker that living primarily in Israel, and not having a real job can both be an issue in getting well priced life insurance...
(And since we don't have jobs- don't know if we can afford it right now)
So I have to decide if worth it to wait a year or two till we move back to the states and get jobs .

My rebbe just sent me today a email with  two interesting stories:
 
1-"There is a really beautiful story about Rav Aryeh Levine in Rav Simcha Raz's book. Someone was trying to persuade Rav Aryeh to get life insurance but he refused. The man persisted saying how will your family survive if chas vesholom something was to happen to you

He replied that were he to die early and go up to the Heavenly Beis Din he would petition that while it is true that he has done many things wrong and maybe does not deserve to live any longer, what have his wife and family done wrong to be denied their husband and father to financially support them. And this would be a very persuasive argument. Until from the side a malach would step forward holding a life insurance document and say, there is no reason to worry about the family, he has life insurance! And then the beis din will decide to keep him dead!"

2-"For the record, I asked Rebbe ((rabbi Berkowitz of Jerusalem kollel)) myself about 7 years ago (living in Chu"l). He said its neither a chiyuv nor assur. I told him I was having trouble and it would be costly and I could instead give maaser (financially it wasn't shayach to do both and I was definitely patur from giving maaser at the time). He told me that doing that would be a much better insurance policy."

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #223 on: July 09, 2014, 07:28:15 PM »
Yes, I mean that spouse. If her parents are super wealthy, perhaps you're right. But her parents are not planning that they may have to cover her expenses again. They may no longer have room for her to live full time in the house (if lived there previously). She may have to pay 10k for medical insurance. etc.

You've addressed half of what I said, and only partially at that.

Many people, both men and women, support themselves before marriage. That support doesn't automatically stop because one gets married.

And parents need not be "super wealthy" to take back a child whose spouse passed away; plenty of plainly middle-class families do it after a divorce. And, even if they were destitute, what prevents this spouse from <gasp> getting a job?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #224 on: July 09, 2014, 07:33:39 PM »
You can possibly prevent yourself from gaining weight, but you can't protect yourself from declining health. Or from ageing. The rule with any insurance is to buy it BEFORE you need it, because that's when its cheaper for you. Waiting until your risk level increases is just short sighted. Like I said, if you plan to have kids then plan all the way.

*aging.

As I said, however, the uptick in premiums resulting from one's progression in age cannot match the savings he or she would glean from not having to pay any premiums at all.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline EJB

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #225 on: July 09, 2014, 07:36:23 PM »
*aging.

As I said, however, the uptick in premiums resulting from one's progression in age cannot match the savings he or she would glean from not having to pay any premiums at all.

And what if you develop a condition that would disqualify you from increasing coverage? And then you pop 5 kids while having this condition. Term insurance is cheap, unless you're a high risk (old/sick). Why save the minimal premium and risk it being much higher when you need it more?

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #226 on: July 09, 2014, 07:38:43 PM »
You've addressed half of what I said, and only partially at that.

Many people, both men and women, support themselves before marriage. That support doesn't automatically stop because one gets married.

And parents need not be "super wealthy" to take back a child whose spouse passed away; plenty of plainly middle-class families do it after a divorce. And, even if they were destitute, what prevents this spouse from <gasp> getting a job?

I know you werent responding to me, but I fully agree with you about not needing insurance for just the spouse's sake, unless perhaps its a situation where the couple has large debts or property to protect. But where kids are a possibility, I can't see how you advise waiting to get insured. Its not like waiting until you buy a car to get auto insurance - the life insurance landscape can change dramatically for a person very suddenly.

Someone I know was diagnosed with terminal cancer shortly after his wedding. No idea beforehand. A week later they found out his wife was expecting. He was uninsurable, meaning no company would sell him life insurance at any price. He died a week after his sons bris. Left the wife with nothing except the child. How different the story could have been if he had been insured right away.

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #227 on: July 09, 2014, 07:40:13 PM »
And what if you develop a condition that would disqualify you from increasing coverage? And then you pop 5 kids while having this condition. Term insurance is cheap, unless you're a high risk (old/sick). Why save the minimal premium and risk it being much higher when you need it more?

What if the sun rises in the west tomorrow? What if the plane someone gets on crashes?

I'm no actuary (:P), but the odds one develops a life-threatening malady in his 20s is statistically negligible... something like 2% of term policies pay out. Which is why, of course, insurance companies can offer term insurance at such attractive rates.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Ergel

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #228 on: July 09, 2014, 07:40:55 PM »
And what if you develop a condition that would disqualify you from increasing coverage? And then you pop 5 kids while having this condition. Term insurance is cheap, unless you're a high risk (old/sick). Why save the minimal premium and risk it being much higher when you need it more?
Like a production line?

Maybe you shouldn't be having five kids with said condition?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #229 on: July 09, 2014, 07:42:39 PM »
I know you werent responding to me, but I fully agree with you about not needing insurance for just the spouse's sake, unless perhaps its a situation where the couple has large debts or property to protect. But where kids are a possibility, I can't see how you advise waiting to get insured. Its not like waiting until you buy a car to get auto insurance - the life insurance landscape can change dramatically for a person very suddenly.

Someone I know was diagnosed with terminal cancer shortly after his wedding. No idea beforehand. A week later they found out his wife was expecting. He was uninsurable, meaning no company would sell him life insurance at any price. He died a week after his sons bris. Left the wife with nothing except the child. How different the story could have been if he had been insured right away.

Terrible story, and of course that's a possibility, but statistically it is not the safe bet.

And it's exactly like buying auto insurance before you have the car, or homeowners before the house. One doesn't need life insurance until he has dependents. And, to me, I don't consider an able-bodied 20-something to be a dependent... especially when that able-bodied 20-something has a job, or came from his or her parents support not to long ago.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline EJB

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #230 on: July 09, 2014, 07:44:31 PM »
What if the sun rises in the west tomorrow? What if the plane someone gets on crashes?

I'm no actuary (:P), but the odds one develops a life-threatening malady in his 20s is statistically negligible... something like 2% of term policies pay out. Which is why, of course, insurance companies can offer term insurance at such attractive rates.

I am an actuary (not in life insurance, though), and the odds of a policy paying out are indeed very low. But this is insurance, not a bet on death. The goal is to protect your loved ones if the unexpected occurs.

Offline EJB

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #231 on: July 09, 2014, 07:45:43 PM »
Like a production line?

Maybe you shouldn't be having five kids with said condition?

I'm exaggerating. But even 1-2 kids can be expensive for a single wife to care for.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #232 on: July 09, 2014, 07:45:48 PM »
What if the sun rises in the west tomorrow? What if the plane someone gets on crashes?

I'm no actuary (:P), but the odds one develops a life-threatening malady in his 20s is statistically negligible... something like 2% of term policies pay out. Which is why, of course, insurance companies can offer term insurance at such attractive rates.

No one can know in advance if they will be in that 2% or not. Thats why insurance exists. Your argument amounts to saying that you are willing to insure yourself against the 2% (or whatever percent) risk. I think thats a bad decision.... upside potential is just a few bucks and the downside is huge.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #233 on: July 09, 2014, 07:46:53 PM »
Unless you have all the money you need. Then by all means self insure.

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #234 on: July 09, 2014, 07:50:31 PM »
No one can know in advance if they will be in that 2% or not. Thats why insurance exists. Your argument amounts to saying that you are willing to insure yourself against the 2% (or whatever percent) risk. I think thats a bad decision.... upside potential is just a few bucks and the downside is huge.

I don't believe that's accurate:

And it's exactly like buying auto insurance before you have the car, or homeowners before the house. One doesn't need life insurance until he has dependents. And, to me, I don't consider an able-bodied 20-something to be a dependent... especially when that able-bodied 20-something has a job, or came from his or her parents support not to long ago.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #235 on: July 09, 2014, 07:52:01 PM »
Terrible story, and of course that's a possibility, but statistically it is not the safe bet.

And it's exactly like buying auto insurance before you have the car, or homeowners before the house. One doesn't need life insurance until he has dependents. And, to me, I don't consider an able-bodied 20-something to be a dependent... especially when that able-bodied 20-something has a job, or came from his or her parents support not to long ago.

And I know several other similar stories.

People don't wait until they die to buy life insurance. Or until they crash to buy auto insurance, etc. Insurance is by definition something you buy before you need it - you buy it when you anticipate a need for it. The only thing we should be debating is when to anticipate that need. I believe its as soon as you plan to have a family (for most frum people this means when you get married). You for some reason are telling people to risk their health status to save a few bucks. I hope people pick what they think makes sense for them.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #236 on: July 09, 2014, 07:52:28 PM »
If you plan on insuring your wife then according to my finnancial advisor you should insure before the kids come in, some pregnancy complications can raise premiums drastically.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #237 on: July 09, 2014, 07:54:39 PM »
If you plan on insuring your wife then according to my finnancial advisor you should insure before the kids come in, some pregnancy complications can raise premiums drastically.

Kol shekain. But AJK doesn't think declining health is a risk thats worth paying a few bucks to get ahead of.

Offline EJB

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #238 on: July 09, 2014, 07:54:54 PM »
If you plan on insuring your wife then according to my finnancial advisor you should insure before the kids come in, some pregnancy complications can raise premiums drastically.

Anyone work in life insurance here? Can you increase coverage while pregnant?

Offline AJK

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #239 on: July 09, 2014, 07:54:57 PM »
And I know several other similar stories.

People don't wait until they die to buy life insurance. Or until they crash to buy auto insurance, etc. Insurance is by definition something you buy before you need it - you buy it when you anticipate a need for it. The only thing we should be debating is when to anticipate that need. I believe its as soon as you plan to have a family (for most frum people this means when you get married). You for some reason are telling people to risk their health status to save a few bucks. I hope people pick what they think makes sense for them.

I don't argue with buying insurance before you need it. I just don't think that need develops upon marriage, as I don't believe a spouse is necessarily a dependent, whereas children are.

If your wife is pregnant, by all means insure. But it makes no sense to me to do it before.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper