Topic Wiki

Life insurance: If there is someone is relying on your income, you need life insurance.
Your wife should also be insured, even if she doesn't work.  The need to insure her comes from the expenses of replacing her for childcare and housework. And if she does work (or is the breadwinner), then you need to insure her for income replacement - don’t be too macho to insure her.

How much to get?
First figure out how much you live on for real.

One school of thought is to get enough life insurance that you don't use up that payout, only live on the income that money generates.  So to make $80,000 of income at 5%, you need an initial investment (insurance amount) of $1,600,000 or over 1.5 million dollars! This piece of advice makes very little sense in today's low interest rate environment - since to chase a 5% return you need to risk the principal.

A better plan would be to estimate how many years of income replacement or expense coverage you need for each spouse. A big part of the need for income comes from child related expenses, which will end after the children reach a certain age. Or, at younger ages it is reasonable to expect that a widow/widower could get remarried, and therefore won't need as many years. Take all this into consideration and consult a financial adviser if you can afford it.

Another plan.  She'll be able to go to school, or otherwise get set up for a high paying job with a few years of full support.  So you only need a few years’ worth of income.  Let's say $80,000 X 5 years = $400,000.  Realize that her expenses without a husband might be higher than now as a couple.  (babysitter, tutors, etc) 


Term insurance vs Whole life
Term insurance is the cheapest and simplest.  You pay a premium and  if chv”sh the insured person dies, the beneficiary gets the insurance amount. The higher the risk a person is, the higher the premium.  So people with worse health  will pay more than healthy people for the same amount of insurance, and older people will pay more than younger people.
Level term.  One popular type of term insurance has a level premium for a fixed number of years. Many people prefer this to the traditional type of term insurance where the premium each each year pays for coverage only in that year (and as a result the premiums increase every year, because you are aging). In contrast, a level premium term insurance policy has an unchanging premium amount that is guaranteed for a specific number of years. As a result of the design you are overpaying in the early years of the policy to subsidize your cost in the later years. Popular guarantee periods are 10, 20 or 30 years.  As with any insurance, it pays to get one while you are healthy to lock in the lowest rate possible (in general, health only declines, you rarely hear of people getting healthier with age).
Whole life has a level premium that is guaranteed not to increase for as long as you live. Because of insurance laws in the US, this type of insurance policy must always have a "cash value", which is the amount of money you get back if you cancel the policy. That makes Whole Life a much more expensive choice relative to pure insurance coverage (where you'd get nothing back if you cancel) and therefore a bad choice for most people who are not rich (this is complicated to explain in great detail, but it is an effective summary of who is most likely to see good value in buying Whole Life). One fringe benefit of having a cash value in Whole Life is that you have saved money which can be used for your retirement or any other purpose if you are still alive.  For most people though, other savings vehicles will be better.
Universal life is very similar to whole life, in that it is meant to provide insurance coverage for as long as you live (as opposed to Term, which is meant to for a short to medium period of time). The most important difference is that the premium rates for Universal Life are not guaranteed, unlike Whole Life which is completely guaranteed. The concept behind Universal Life is that the insurance company tells you all the charges you are paying for and lets you pay as much or as little as you want for the coverage. Anything extra that you pay goes into an account that can earn interest, and as long as that account doesn't run out of money you stay insured.
Variable Life is an offshoot of Universal Life. The difference is that instead of the extra money going into an account that earns interest, you can choose to invest the extra money in mutual funds. Take my word as an expert in insurance that Variable Universal Life is only for the most investment oriented people (meaning that they barely care at all about the insurance part of the policy). If you are trying to decide on Term or Variable, the answer is always Term.

How long a Term Insurance companies make tons of money on people who buy 30 year terms and then let it lapse after 10 years, since they paid 30 year rates for those 10 years.  Consider a long term Term the equivalent of insuring against the possibility you will be uninsurable in 10 years.  Consider also that you would be able to convert the short term Term into a whole life policy at that time regardless of insurability.

Life insurance has some very favorable tax treatment on the cash value (or account value), which is a big selling point, especially for people in certain tax brackets who have all but run out of tax advantaged places to save money. The exact details are very technical and could not be fairly explained without making this wiki extremely long.

Reevaluate your situation and the amount of insurance periodically.  As things change- income, spending, family additions-  the amount of coverage you need will need tweaking.

In addition to buying insurance, don't forget to set up plans for how your beneficiaries can use the insurance money to live with their needs taken care of. Providing for your family in case of a tragic event is perhaps as selfless an act as a person can do, don't do it halfway! Make sure there will be money AND a plan for how to live on it. In my experience I have seen all types of unqualified people get involved with "helping" a family live off huge amounts of money and getting it wrong 10 times out of 10.

Plan for guardians to care for your children if cv"sh both parents are unavailable.


« Last edited by henche on July 09, 2014, 10:40:28 PM »

Author Topic: Do you have life insurance?  (Read 67700 times)

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25499
  • Total likes: 723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #240 on: July 09, 2014, 07:57:19 PM »
Kol shekain. But AJK doesn't think declining health is a risk thats worth paying a few bucks to get ahead of.

Again, you're mischaracterizing my position.

I don't think it's crazy to pay a few bucks for insurance... provided one has dependent(s), just like I don't think it's crazy to get auto insurance... provided one has a car.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #241 on: July 09, 2014, 07:59:22 PM »
I don't argue with buying insurance before you need it. I just don't think that need develops upon marriage, as I don't believe a spouse is necessarily a dependent, whereas children are.

If your wife is pregnant, by all means insure. But it makes no sense to me to do it before.

OK. But what if your wife gets pregnant imminently? Are you saying lo chayshinan that she will get pregnant imminently? Is that why you disavree with me? Because I say chayshinnan (in general). Maybe you just know more bonei oilem stories that are making you feel that way.

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #242 on: July 09, 2014, 08:00:35 PM »
Again, you're mischaracterizing my position.

I don't think it's crazy to pay a few bucks for insurance... provided one has dependent(s), just like I don't think it's crazy to get auto insurance... provided one has a car.

Show me where I mischaracterized your argument. Please.

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #243 on: July 09, 2014, 08:06:42 PM »
Again, you're mischaracterizing my position.

Really?

I know you werent responding to me, but I fully agree with you about not needing insurance for just the spouse's sake, unless perhaps its a situation where the couple has large debts or property to protect. But where kids are a possibility, I can't see how you advise waiting to get insured.

I think you just weren't reading my posts.

What if the sun rises in the west tomorrow? What if the plane someone gets on crashes?

I'm no actuary (:P), but the odds one develops a life-threatening malady in his 20s is statistically negligible... something like 2% of term policies pay out.

Sounds to me like you don't see the point in getting underwritten before developing a life-threatening malady because it's statistically negligible. Which is why I responded:

No one can know in advance if they will be in that 2% or not.

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25499
  • Total likes: 723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #244 on: July 09, 2014, 08:32:50 PM »
For the third (?) time, I don't have any issue insuring against even that 2% possibility. I just don't think it is prudent to do so without any dependents. The end.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 4461
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #245 on: July 09, 2014, 08:39:25 PM »
I think you should get it from the first second when there is any chance your wife could be pregnant.  Ideally it should be effective on the day of your wedding.

Offline ckmk47

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 8031
  • Total likes: 1065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #246 on: July 09, 2014, 11:08:38 PM »
I think you should get it from the first second when there is any chance your wife could be pregnant.  Ideally it should be effective on the day of your wedding.
I think a newlywed, pregnant widow would move back in with her parents. So life insurance may not be essential yet.
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline DP7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 1825
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #247 on: July 09, 2014, 11:24:31 PM »
I think a newlywed, pregnant widow would move back in with her parents. So life insurance may not be essential yet.

Because all grandparents can afford to raise a grandchild...

Offline henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 4461
  • Total likes: 449
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #248 on: July 09, 2014, 11:25:00 PM »
I think a newlywed, pregnant widow would move back in with her parents. So life insurance may not be essential yet.

That assumes your in-laws have the resources to support your unborn child (their grandson) into adulthood. 

Certainly you should take all other possible support into consideration.  For example, if your own parents are worth a few hundred million, you probably don't really need life insurance at all, since you can count on them to take care of your kids and wife.

I was just giving a general pointer.  My general pointer was that if you think your kid would need money if you were not in the picture, then you should be concerned about it from the time there is a safek kid.

Offline Super Speed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 4857
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle, Avis First, National Executive Elite, Sixt Platinum.
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #249 on: July 09, 2014, 11:47:01 PM »
Why is every topic in JS leading to pregnancy?


Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4077
  • Total likes: 835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #250 on: July 09, 2014, 11:51:14 PM »
Are you talking about term or whole life? Premium for term is cheap regardless. I pay $10 a month for 500k.
What kind of term policy is this? That sounds way too low for any sort of level term product. Is it yearly renewable or something of that sort?

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13722
  • Total likes: 6266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #251 on: July 09, 2014, 11:57:48 PM »
What kind of term policy is this? That sounds way too low for any sort of level term product. Is it yearly renewable or something of that sort?
Could be a healthy female. Not so low fwiu.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4077
  • Total likes: 835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #252 on: July 10, 2014, 12:02:08 AM »
Could be a healthy female. Not so low fwiu.
Not really. Check out term4sale.com, play around with it and try to get a quote that cheap for $120/year or less.

Level term policies are more expensive than that, though not excessively so.

Offline Name Changed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 4831
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Avis Presidents Club, National Executive Elite, Hertz Presidents Circle, Sixt Platinum, SPG Gold, eBay Platinum
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #253 on: July 10, 2014, 12:06:08 AM »
If your wife is pregnant, by all means insure. But it makes no sense to me to do it before.
A per post earlier in the tread, seems that the argument of getting insurance before you have kids would be when kids may be in the picture - e.g. pregnant wife.

Although I hear the argument of there really is no need before a wife is pregnant (unless there is a mortgage, or debt ect) but on the flip side, there are benefits of being locked into a life insurance at a lower age, and while still eligible to get a better rate.

Term insurance is fairly cheap, and especially if you intend on having children in the near future then it really is not much of an expense or waste of money buying at a lower age.

Besides for being able to be locked into a A+ rate as people are typically healthier when they are younger, but even more so, sickness or death of siblings rm'l could dramatically increase someones rates.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7647
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #254 on: July 10, 2014, 12:07:52 AM »
How important is it that the insuring company be A+ rated vs AA- ?

Offline ckmk47

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 8031
  • Total likes: 1065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #255 on: July 10, 2014, 12:13:16 AM »
And I still wish there was a wiki on here.
<< Scroll to the topof the page.  Above the bar where it has the thread topic, there's another, similar looking bar.  At the right of that bar is a +.  Click on it. ::)  >>
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 09:41:26 AM by jj1000 »
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5410
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #256 on: July 10, 2014, 12:14:15 AM »
What kind of term policy is this? That sounds way too low for any sort of level term product. Is it yearly renewable or something of that sort?

It's yearly renewable

Online jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13722
  • Total likes: 6266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #257 on: July 10, 2014, 12:16:47 AM »
<< Scroll to the topof the page.  Above the bar where it has the thread topic, there's another, similar looking bar.  At the right of that bar is a +.  Click on it. ::)  >>
cool didn't notice thanks. Is that all written by you or a copy paste from a site?
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline ckmk47

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 8031
  • Total likes: 1065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #258 on: July 10, 2014, 12:24:39 AM »
cool didn't notice thanks. Is that all written by you or a copy paste from a site?
Written by me and yos9694.
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4077
  • Total likes: 835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #259 on: July 10, 2014, 12:32:07 AM »
It's yearly renewable
Any particular reason why you chose YRT over Level Term?

What's funny is that I was going to suggest the concept of buying YRT and keeping the policy till you have kids (or a house, etc.), then buying a 20-30 year level term. That way you keep the cost as low as possible until you know you have a need for coverage.