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Life insurance: If there is someone is relying on your income, you need life insurance.
Your wife should also be insured, even if she doesn't work.  The need to insure her comes from the expenses of replacing her for childcare and housework. And if she does work (or is the breadwinner), then you need to insure her for income replacement - don’t be too macho to insure her.

How much to get?
First figure out how much you live on for real.

One school of thought is to get enough life insurance that you don't use up that payout, only live on the income that money generates.  So to make $80,000 of income at 5%, you need an initial investment (insurance amount) of $1,600,000 or over 1.5 million dollars! This piece of advice makes very little sense in today's low interest rate environment - since to chase a 5% return you need to risk the principal.

A better plan would be to estimate how many years of income replacement or expense coverage you need for each spouse. A big part of the need for income comes from child related expenses, which will end after the children reach a certain age. Or, at younger ages it is reasonable to expect that a widow/widower could get remarried, and therefore won't need as many years. Take all this into consideration and consult a financial adviser if you can afford it.

Another plan.  She'll be able to go to school, or otherwise get set up for a high paying job with a few years of full support.  So you only need a few years’ worth of income.  Let's say $80,000 X 5 years = $400,000.  Realize that her expenses without a husband might be higher than now as a couple.  (babysitter, tutors, etc) 


Term insurance vs Whole life
Term insurance is the cheapest and simplest.  You pay a premium and  if chv”sh the insured person dies, the beneficiary gets the insurance amount. The higher the risk a person is, the higher the premium.  So people with worse health  will pay more than healthy people for the same amount of insurance, and older people will pay more than younger people.
Level term.  One popular type of term insurance has a level premium for a fixed number of years. Many people prefer this to the traditional type of term insurance where the premium each each year pays for coverage only in that year (and as a result the premiums increase every year, because you are aging). In contrast, a level premium term insurance policy has an unchanging premium amount that is guaranteed for a specific number of years. As a result of the design you are overpaying in the early years of the policy to subsidize your cost in the later years. Popular guarantee periods are 10, 20 or 30 years.  As with any insurance, it pays to get one while you are healthy to lock in the lowest rate possible (in general, health only declines, you rarely hear of people getting healthier with age).
Whole life has a level premium that is guaranteed not to increase for as long as you live. Because of insurance laws in the US, this type of insurance policy must always have a "cash value", which is the amount of money you get back if you cancel the policy. That makes Whole Life a much more expensive choice relative to pure insurance coverage (where you'd get nothing back if you cancel) and therefore a bad choice for most people who are not rich (this is complicated to explain in great detail, but it is an effective summary of who is most likely to see good value in buying Whole Life). One fringe benefit of having a cash value in Whole Life is that you have saved money which can be used for your retirement or any other purpose if you are still alive.  For most people though, other savings vehicles will be better.
Universal life is very similar to whole life, in that it is meant to provide insurance coverage for as long as you live (as opposed to Term, which is meant to for a short to medium period of time). The most important difference is that the premium rates for Universal Life are not guaranteed, unlike Whole Life which is completely guaranteed. The concept behind Universal Life is that the insurance company tells you all the charges you are paying for and lets you pay as much or as little as you want for the coverage. Anything extra that you pay goes into an account that can earn interest, and as long as that account doesn't run out of money you stay insured.
Variable Life is an offshoot of Universal Life. The difference is that instead of the extra money going into an account that earns interest, you can choose to invest the extra money in mutual funds. Take my word as an expert in insurance that Variable Universal Life is only for the most investment oriented people (meaning that they barely care at all about the insurance part of the policy). If you are trying to decide on Term or Variable, the answer is always Term.

How long a Term Insurance companies make tons of money on people who buy 30 year terms and then let it lapse after 10 years, since they paid 30 year rates for those 10 years.  Consider a long term Term the equivalent of insuring against the possibility you will be uninsurable in 10 years.  Consider also that you would be able to convert the short term Term into a whole life policy at that time regardless of insurability.

Life insurance has some very favorable tax treatment on the cash value (or account value), which is a big selling point, especially for people in certain tax brackets who have all but run out of tax advantaged places to save money. The exact details are very technical and could not be fairly explained without making this wiki extremely long.

Reevaluate your situation and the amount of insurance periodically.  As things change- income, spending, family additions-  the amount of coverage you need will need tweaking.

In addition to buying insurance, don't forget to set up plans for how your beneficiaries can use the insurance money to live with their needs taken care of. Providing for your family in case of a tragic event is perhaps as selfless an act as a person can do, don't do it halfway! Make sure there will be money AND a plan for how to live on it. In my experience I have seen all types of unqualified people get involved with "helping" a family live off huge amounts of money and getting it wrong 10 times out of 10.

Plan for guardians to care for your children if cv"sh both parents are unavailable.


« Last edited by henche on July 09, 2014, 10:40:28 PM »

Author Topic: Do you have life insurance?  (Read 67654 times)

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #280 on: July 10, 2014, 01:00:21 PM »
Rating was fine. I have no intention of reapplying in 6months/a year.
No extra premium.


New York Life.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #281 on: July 10, 2014, 01:53:24 PM »
Rating was fine. I have no intention of reapplying in 6months/a year.
No extra premium.


New York Life.
You bought term from NYL? Why?

[disclaimer: I work for NYL, though I've never priced Term and I currently work in Annuities)]

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #282 on: July 10, 2014, 01:55:08 PM »
Churning is only when it's done to produce commissions. Here there is a reason to redo -  client wants lowest term rate in ART - yet again. (I've never seen someone do this every year, maybe every 2 or 3...
Right. I'm skeptical though that the second year ART premium is much different than the first year ART premium of a new policy of issue age plus one. But if it actually is in someone's case and he goes ahead and takes advantage of that, I agree no agent is going to get in trouble for that. The insurance company would be well advised to close such a pricing hole though.
I thought he said he bought level term, in which case you're comparing say a 25 year old 10 year term to a 26 year old 10 year term.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #283 on: July 10, 2014, 01:55:48 PM »
It is somewhat covered by convertibility, but converting means switching to an investment product which is expensive.

I imagine they must be building in expenses, but I have to imagine that my premium next year for a new policy would be about the same price as this year assuming same health, since the risk is already known.
Do you mind posting the company and specific product you bought?

Offline henche

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #284 on: July 10, 2014, 01:57:05 PM »
Right. I'm skeptical though that the second year ART premium is much different than the first year ART premium of a new policy of issue age plus one.

Well, that seems valuable to me.

When you buy a 20 year term, you sell off 20 years of risk.  After 10 years have passed, you only have 10 years of risk protected. But at that point there is an information imbalance. You know your status but they don't, so you choose whether to keep the plan or bargain for better.

It should make sense that to buy a new 10 year term at that point would be cheaper than continuing to pay on the 20. Assuming no change but age.

Conceptualize it that your premium has two compnents: the risk that you will fie this year, and the risk that you will get fat and they won't be able to raise your rate for the entire term. (You could break it down by day or minute also).

The first component I won't save on, but the second I have inside info regarding. I know if I've gotten fat.

So by moving to a new 10 year term, I get 10 more years of protected premium rate.

Offline Jkhein

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #285 on: July 10, 2014, 09:06:09 PM »
Thank G-d it died a quiet death. Pun intended.
-1
I know it's something that the brokers don't like, but as far as I am aware and please CMIIW they are far from dead, have many members and are helping out their cases, all the time

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #286 on: July 10, 2014, 09:07:12 PM »
-1
I know it's something that the brokers don't like, but as far as I am aware and please CMIIW they are far from dead, have many members and are helping out their cases, all the time

Der Aibishter zol uphitten

Offline Jkhein

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #287 on: July 10, 2014, 09:12:50 PM »
Der Aibishter zol uphitten
are you a broker?

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #288 on: July 10, 2014, 09:13:22 PM »
No.  ::)

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #289 on: July 11, 2014, 12:00:05 PM »
-1
I know it's something that the brokers don't like, but as far as I am aware and please CMIIW they are far from dead, have many members and are helping out their cases, all the time

I'd like to throw your straw man argument back at you.

I know Areivim is something that Ponzi schemers like. Are you a scam artist?

Offline henche

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #290 on: July 11, 2014, 12:27:34 PM »
I'd like to throw your straw man argument back at you.

I know Areivim is something that Ponzi schemers like. Are you a scam artist?

Woah, I don't think I'd call it a ponzi scheme.  The only people taking money out are orphans and widows, and I don't think the people were planning on dying.

Offline Jkhein

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #291 on: July 11, 2014, 12:27:55 PM »
I'd like to throw your straw man argument back at you.

I know Areivim is something that Ponzi schemers like. Are you a scam artist?
No.  ::)

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #292 on: July 11, 2014, 12:44:26 PM »
Woah, I don't think I'd call it a ponzi scheme.  The only people taking money out are orphans and widows, and I don't think the people were planning on dying.

But were people planning on using it as insurance? That's really where the issue is. If you want to run a tzedaka fund for widows and orphans in a more efficient way than taking out newspaper ads, then fine. But by calling it insurance, you make people rely on it for protection, even though for most people it probably won't be there when they need it. They should have been steered into life insurance from a company that we know will be around to back their guarantees.

Is Areivim actually still around though? One person here claims that it is, but that's the first I've heard of it in a long time. Their website is down for years already http://www.areivimusa.org/ and I don't see ads anywhere anymore, so where exactly do they exist?

And for the record, it's not just brokers who are against it. That was actually quite an offensive thing to say, making it seem like it's people objecting to a fantastic program because they are being selfish about losing commissions  ::). If you're curious about what kind of people are against it based on fundamental reasons and concerns about it's legitimacy, here's some background reading that is available on the internets - there's plenty more that took place offline which I could upload.

http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/2011/05/time-to-revisit-areivim.html
http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/articleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1310&ThisGroup_ID=262&Type=article
http://wolfishmusings.blogspot.com/2010/05/areivim-my-opinion-on-matter-and-some.html
http://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138750&view=next

Offline Jkhein

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #293 on: July 11, 2014, 01:13:13 PM »
But were people planning on using it as insurance? That's really where the issue is. If you want to run a tzedaka fund for widows and orphans in a more efficient way than taking out newspaper ads, then fine. But by calling it insurance, you make people rely on it for protection, even though for most people it probably won't be there when they need it. They should have been steered into life insurance from a company that we know will be around to back their guarantees.
Quote
4) Areivim USA is not life insurance. Project Areivim USA has been established primarily as a charitable endeavor and its halachic status is like that of all tzedakah money collected from the public. In the event of a the passing of a member r”l, all contributions can be made with maaser money.

Is Areivim actually still around though? One person here claims that it is, but that's the first I've heard of it in a long time. Their website is down for years already http://www.areivimusa.org/ and I don't see ads anywhere anymore, so where exactly do they exist?

I don't know where you picked up that website, a quick google search for areivim found this website http://www.areivim.info/ and that's where I quoted the above from.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #294 on: July 11, 2014, 04:46:04 PM »
Just read that website and it seems that if they are still operating they have not changed their tune
 Since you seem to be a supporter of the program I ask you what social good do they serve?

- No unhealthy people may sign up for benefits
- No guarantees are made that payments will be made (its at their disrection, based on the board and a rav, must be keeping torah and mitzvos according to their standards, yada yada)
- No sense for how often you can expect to have to pay the membership fees/claims
- No sense for how likely they are to stay solvent - replacing deceased members in the group or at what point the group will be dismantled/restructured
- Access to the money if a death occurs is restricted and distributed at the whim of the "Areivim Board" or representative
- No payments if you are deemed to not be financially needy
- No right to legal action if treated unfairly

And even if everything is managed perfectly, how is this better than an insurance policy from a reputable company? Is it supposed to be cheaper? More reliable?

Offline hocker

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #295 on: July 11, 2014, 07:06:18 PM »
Just read that website and it seems that if they are still operating they have not changed their tune
 Since you seem to be a supporter of the program I ask you what social good do they serve?

- No unhealthy people may sign up for benefits For Healthy people
- No guarantees are made that payments will be made (its at their disrection, based on the board and a rav, must be keeping torah and mitzvos according to their standards, yada yada) What guarantee do you have that any insurance company will pay out? Obviously, you're signing a binding contract.
- No sense for how often you can expect to have to pay the membership fees/claims They tell you the max and many times it's even less
- No sense for how likely they are to stay solvent - replacing deceased members in the group or at what point the group will be dismantled/restructured There's no guarantees in any biz, the ins company can also go bankrupt. Obviously there's no reason they shouldn't remain solvent and they can always add more members.
- Access to the money if a death occurs is restricted and distributed at the whim of the "Areivim Board" or representative What interest do they have not to fund your family? The org isn't paying they are just collecting dues from their members.
- No payments if you are deemed to not be financially needy It's an insurance policy that your family will HAVE money, not an insurance that they will GET money
- No right to legal action if treated unfairly They make a binding contract which can be enforced in Bais Din and in court.

And even if everything is managed perfectly, how is this better than an insurance policy from a reputable company? Is it supposed to be cheaper? More reliable? Its much much cheaper.
I'm not taking a side, I personally lean to get LI but for someone who can't afford it, this is definitely better than nothing.

Offline yos9694

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #296 on: July 11, 2014, 07:44:18 PM »
I'm not taking a side, I personally lean to get LI but for someone who can't afford it, this is definitely better than nothing.

Completely agree with your punchline... its better than nothing. Obviously some people would never get LI and for them this is a good thing. But if anyone who does this would have/could have bought LI otherwise its a bad thing.

Your comments about solvency are just baffling to me. Second, they have no incentive to not pay a claim until someone decides to prioritize a different claim capriciously. And "they can always add more members" until they can't (ala Ponzi).

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still, so I'll stop trying.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #297 on: July 16, 2014, 04:18:19 PM »

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #298 on: July 16, 2014, 04:33:23 PM »
If everyone would participate (both the givers and the receivers), it would be a much better idea to have a tzedaka organization that funds actual life insurance policies for people who can't afford it. Of course while I'm living in a dream world, I might as well dream of a world where no one is poor in the first place  :P

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Do you have life insurance?
« Reply #299 on: July 16, 2014, 04:36:17 PM »
If everyone would participate (both the givers and the receivers), it would be a much better idea to have a tzedaka organization that funds actual life insurance policies for people who can't afford it. Of course while I'm living in a dream world, I might as well dream of a world where no one is poor in the first place  :P
Better yet, a world where people don't die young...