Snow in NY Area

[TimT]

Above-ground trains shutting down at 2PM in NYC.

[TimT]

https://twitter.com/HaMeturgeman/status/1356407507883872262

[Moshe123]

Definitely a historic storm here. Closing on two feet and snowing heavily.

[S209]

"“That’s blinding snow,” Hizzoner said, adding, that he is “fearful” of the situation getting “worse.”"

I always wonder if these gentlemen ever visited not Saskatchewan but perhaps Montreal or some other snowier place in their lives.

Calgary.. 2 years ago it snowed 2 feet on both Sukkos and Pesach (and many times in between)

[Dan]

Calgary.. 2 years ago it snowed 2 feet on both Sukkos and Pesach (and many times in between)

Got 2x 2 footers in CLE so far this winter. No snow days yet, streets got plowed, life went on.

[yitzgar]

Got 2x 2 footers in CLE so far this winter. No snow days yet, streets got plowed, life went on.

If I remember correctly, there was one snow day

[Euclid]

Got 2x 2 footers in CLE so far this winter. No snow days yet, streets got plowed, life went on.

and yet you guys shut down school for something microscopic...speaking of snowflakes smh

[yesitsme]

I was skidding on snow flakes today #noKidding,
How do they clear snow in Toronto?

[Dan]

If I remember correctly, there was one snow day

What day was that?

[Essen est zich]

I feel bad for all those who parked on the wrong side of the 1 way streets.... They're going to have a hard time getting out...

[yitzgar]

What day was that?

I think it was the first storm.

[aygart]

I was skidding on snow flakes today #noKidding,
How do they clear snow in Toronto?

They clear snow in Toronto if you are not a main road?

[ExGingi]

Can you do a write up on that?

Not sure what you want me to write. I put 90% of the info in the post above.

I used 4" spacing. For a storm like we just had maybe 3" would work better, but whatever little bit of snow that did accumulate during the heavy snowfall hours, was very easily wiped off.

Don't skimp on insulation under the concrete. Use at least 1" (I used the light blue type which I bought at Home Depot). A friend who referred me to Thermosoft (call to order rather than order online, prices seemed better) didn't bother with insulation due to his false assumption that it's not needed because "heat rises" which is a total misunderstanding of physics. Unfortunately his system simply didn't perform properly.

I initially thought I would use just 6" wire mesh supported by bricks (you want the heating elements about 2" from the surface, and I made my concrete pour 7" for strength) but ended up making a frame from rebars which I tied to stakes (1 ft. rebars) which I hammered into the ground, to which the mesh was secured. I would definitely pay extra to have the heating elements come in mats rather than just the wire. Will cost more but save lots of time on the installation.

Getting an electrician to hook it up was a bit of a challenge, but finally got someone who did it. I opted NOT to use sensors, but rather decided to put a smart switch which I hope to control using IFTTT based on conditions, and could also control remotely (obviously a contactor or relay is needed, my 20' x 11' sidewalk needs a total of about 30A 230V, you want a relay/contactor to switch such a circuit). Anyone needing detailed tips and info can PM.

[Dan]

I think it was the first storm.

Hmm. Wonder if we were in quarantine then.

[skyguy918]

BH, my DYI sidewalk snow melt system seems to be working well. I'm glad I read up about it in advance. Seems like one of the keys to success is proper insulation underneath.

...I would definitely pay extra to have the heating elements come in mats rather than just the wire. Will cost more but save lots of time on the installation.

Seems like their mats are much more expensive. You did the whole width of the walkway? Seems like a 3-4' path in the middle would be sufficient given what this costs to buy and operate.

[ExGingi]

Seems like their mats are much more expensive. You did the whole width of the walkway? Seems like a 3-4' path in the middle would be sufficient given what this costs to buy and operate.

Much cheaper than my time/labor. Unrolling the wire and securing it properly is more time and labor consuming than it seems. Though an alternative might be to create a frame off-site and secure the heating elements to it and then just dropping the whole thing into place.

I didn't do my walkway and steps. Only the sidewalk since I was required to redo my sidewalk due to cracks, so once already pouring new concrete, I decided (thanks to prodding by DW) to put a snow melt system in.

[skyguy918]

Much cheaper than my time/labor. Unrolling the wire and securing it properly is more time and labor consuming than it seems. Though an alternative might be to create a frame off-site and secure the heating elements to it and then just dropping the whole thing into place.

I didn't do my walkway and steps. Only the sidewalk since I was required to redo my sidewalk due to cracks, so once already pouring new concrete, I decided (thanks to prodding by DW) to put a snow melt system in.

Walkway or sidewalk I would think the question is the same. Why bother with the whole width? For example, with their 3' wide mats, you could create a nice path with one 20' long mat without having to cover the whole space.

[ExGingi]

Walkway or sidewalk I would think the question is the same. Why bother with the whole width? For example, with their 3' wide mats, you could create a nice path with one 20' long mat without having to cover the whole space.

If/when I do my walkway, then a 3' wide path might indeed suffice, but for my sidewalk, I want the entire thing clear.

TBH, if I would have had more time, I might have planned and laid down the two circuits in an interlaced way, so that if one goes bad, whatever is left is still highly functional (rather than just keeping 1/2 of the width of my house clear).

[AsherO]

TBH, if I would have had more time, I might have planned and laid down the two circuits in an interlaced way, so that if one goes bad, whatever is left is still highly functional (rather than just keeping 1/2 of the width of my house clear).

Is there a special concrete mix you can use to make this work more efficiently or just the insulation?

[ExGingi]

Is there a special concrete mix you can use to make this work more efficiently or just the insulation?

I did not. I actually remembered an article from several years ago about conductive concrete (here's one news article about it). However, when I wrote to Professor Tuan asking him for designs, even before he responded to me telling me to first check local codes to see if it would be allowed (I am not sure if even what I installed is allowed under NYC code), I realized (based on a schematic I saw somewhere of his sytem) that installing that kind of system would require more skill, effort, and cost than just an electric snow melt system under the concrete. (based on the video here, I am guessing that the conductive concrete is cheaper to run).

When you get the contractors that come from the Indian subcontinent that do many of the concrete jobs around, you don't specify anything about the concrete. If you want to use an American contractor that will actually take scientific specifications for the concrete mix, you should figure about 3x the price just for the concrete pour.

Seeing how my system performed vs some of my neighbors, I can tell you that I am 100% convinced that good insulation under the concrete is key to a well functioning system (and less energy use). If I were to do another system I would put 1.5" or 2" (R-7.5 or R-10) insulation board under the concrete.