Author Topic: Zionist Mindset  (Read 6317 times)

Offline avadah

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2014, 10:42:54 AM »
In the beginning: Said Rabbi Isaac: It was not necessary to begin the Torah except from “This month is to you,” (Exod. 12:2) which is the first commandment that the Israelites were commanded, (for the main purpose of the Torah is its commandments, and although several commandments are found in Genesis, e.g., circumcision and the prohibition of eating the thigh sinew, they could have been included together with the other commandments). Now for what reason did He commence with “In the beginning?” Because of [the verse] “The strength of His works He related to His people, to give them the inheritance of the nations” (Ps. 111:6). For if the nations of the world should say to Israel, “You are robbers, for you conquered by force the lands of the seven nations [of Canaan],” they will reply, "The entire earth belongs to the Holy One, blessed be He; He created it (this we learn from the story of the Creation) and gave it to whomever He deemed proper When He wished, He gave it to them, and when He wished, He took it away from them and gave it to us.
    
בראשית: אמר רבי יצחק לא היה צריך להתחיל [את] התורה אלא (שמות יב ב) מהחודש הזה לכם, שהיא מצוה ראשונה שנצטוו [בה] ישראל, ומה טעם פתח בבראשית, משום (תהלים קיא ו) כח מעשיו הגיד לעמו לתת להם נחלת גוים, שאם יאמרו אומות העולם לישראל לסטים אתם, שכבשתם ארצות שבעה גוים, הם אומרים להם כל הארץ של הקב"ה היא, הוא בראה ונתנה לאשר ישר בעיניו, ברצונו נתנה להם וברצונו נטלה מהם ונתנה לנו:
I know this but it doesn't do you any good if you don't believe in it.


They can claim what they want, they have not a shred of evidence to back that up...
What do you mean? Arabs lived in Israel for years. The reason the British were so strict with allowing Jews in was because they didn't want to aggravate the Arab population.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 10:45:05 AM »


What do you mean? Arabs lived in Israel for years. The reason the British were so strict with allowing Jews in was because they didn't want to aggravate the Arab population.
+1

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 10:53:12 AM »

In the beginning: Said Rabbi Isaac: It was not necessary to begin the Torah except from “This month is to you,” (Exod. 12:2) which is the first commandment that the Israelites were commanded, (for the main purpose of the Torah is its commandments, and although several commandments are found in Genesis, e.g., circumcision and the prohibition of eating the thigh sinew, they could have been included together with the other commandments). Now for what reason did He commence with “In the beginning?” Because of [the verse] “The strength of His works He related to His people, to give them the inheritance of the nations” (Ps. 111:6). For if the nations of the world should say to Israel, “You are robbers, for you conquered by force the lands of the seven nations [of Canaan],” they will reply, "The entire earth belongs to the Holy One, blessed be He; He created it (this we learn from the story of the Creation) and gave it to whomever He deemed proper When He wished, He gave it to them, and when He wished, He took it away from them and gave it to us.
 
בראשית: אמר רבי יצחק לא היה צריך להתחיל [את] התורה אלא (שמות יב ב) מהחודש הזה לכם, שהיא מצוה ראשונה שנצטוו [בה] ישראל, ומה טעם פתח בבראשית, משום (תהלים קיא ו) כח מעשיו הגיד לעמו לתת להם נחלת גוים, שאם יאמרו אומות העולם לישראל לסטים אתם, שכבשתם ארצות שבעה גוים, הם אומרים להם כל הארץ של הקב"ה היא, הוא בראה ונתנה לאשר ישר בעיניו, ברצונו נתנה להם וברצונו נטלה מהם ונתנה לנו:

Who are the Canaanites?

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 11:02:03 AM »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 11:05:21 AM »
Who are the Canaanites?
Whats the difference? The point is that it is NOT inherently a Jewish land if one does not believe in creation and the torah. These Jews have no inherent claim to the land because they have occupied it intermittently throughout history.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2014, 11:23:33 AM »
Here are Ben Gurion's pearls of wisdom at the UN in 1947
He spoke of Jews receiving the land after yetzias mitzrayim. Do his Children observe seder night? ?
 
Quote
n 1947, standing before the U.N. Commission on the Partition of Palestine, David Ben-Gurion spoke these words:
"Three hundred years ago a ship called the Mayflower set sail to the New World. This was a great event in the history of England. Yet I wonder if there is one Englishman who knows at what time the ship set sail? Do the English know how many people embarked on the voyage? What quality of bread did they eat? Yet more than three thousand three hundred years ago, before the Mayflower set sail, the Jews left Egypt. Every Jew in the world, even in America or Soviet Russia, knows what kind of bread the Jews ate - Matza. Even today the Jews worldwide eat Matza on the 15th of Nisan. They retell the story of the Exodus and all of the troubles Jews have endured since being exiled, saying: This year, slaves, next year, free! This year here - Next year in Jerusalem, in Zion, in Eretz Yisrael. That is the nature of the Jews."
"300 years ago, there came to the New World a boat, and its name was the Mayflower. The Mayflower’s landing on Plymouth Rock was one of the great historical events in the history of England and in the history of America. But I would like to ask any Englishman sitting here on the commission, what day did the Mayflower leave port? What date was it? I’d like to ask the Americans: do they know what date the Mayflower left port in England? How many people were on the boat? Who were their leaders? What kind of food did they eat on the boat?
"More than 3300 years ago, long before the Mayflower, our people left Egypt, and every Jew in the world, wherever he is, knows what day they left. And he knows what food they ate. And we still eat that food every anniversary. And we know who our leader was. And we sit down and tell the story to our children and grandchildren in order to guarantee that it will never be forgotten. And we say our two slogans: 'Now we may be enslaved, but next year, we’ll be a free people.'
". . . Now we are behind the Soviet Union and their prison. Now, we’re in Germany where Hitler is destroying us. Now we’re scattered throughout the world, but next year, we’ll be in Jerusalem. There’ll come a day that we’ll come home to Zion, to the Land of Israel. That is the nature of the Jewish people."

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 11:33:38 AM »
^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.

Offline avadah

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2014, 11:35:05 AM »
Here are Ben Gurion's pearls of wisdom at the UN in 1947
He spoke of Jews receiving the land after yetzias mitzrayim. Do his Children observe seder night? ?
 
Whats the difference? The point is that it is NOT inherently a Jewish land if one does not believe in creation and the torah. These Jews have no inherent claim to the land because they have occupied it intermittently throughout history.

+1

^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.
They don't claim to own the land!  ;D

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 11:40:51 AM »
^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.
The point was illustrating the OP's point which is that without adhering to the Torah and belief creation, zionism is a joke and a myth.
Are you not following the thread? Im not looking to bash people who dont keep pesach, just mocking the zionists who are atheists.  ROLFLMAO

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 11:43:51 AM »

The point was illustrating the OP's point which is that without adhering to the Torah and belief creation, zionism is a joke and a myth.
Are you not following the thread? Im not looking to bash people who dont keep pesach, just mocking the zionists who are atheists.  ROLFLMAO

Satmar Uber Allis. 

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 11:46:47 AM »
Satmar Uber Allis.
I am the furthest thing from satmar that you can imagine.
Are you not a religious zionist? If you're a secular zionist please explain your position. Even ben gurion couldn't articulate it without referencing emuna.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »

I am the furthest thing from satmar that you can imagine.
Are you not a religious zionist? If you're a secular zionist please explain your position. Even ben gurion couldn't articulate it without referencing emuna.

I'm not a Zionist, it's just that your views are eerily similar to what's found in jihadi media.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 11:50:35 AM »
I'm not a Zionist, it's just that your views are eerily similar to what's found in jihadi media.
They make the same claims referenced in Rashi. The answer obviously is in the Rashi also.
You are not really addressing the issue of secular zionism, so enjoy the rest of your day!

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 11:51:41 AM »

They make the same claims referenced in Rashi. The answer obviously is in the Rashi also.
You are not really addressing the issue of secular zionism, so enjoy the rest of your day!

What was the question about secular Zionism?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »
Can someone please explain this to me?
How can someone that's not religious lay claim to Israel because it says in the Torah it belongs to the Jews if they anyways don't keep the Torah?