Author Topic: Zionist Mindset  (Read 8452 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2014, 11:23:33 AM »
Here are Ben Gurion's pearls of wisdom at the UN in 1947
He spoke of Jews receiving the land after yetzias mitzrayim. Do his Children observe seder night? ?
 
Quote
n 1947, standing before the U.N. Commission on the Partition of Palestine, David Ben-Gurion spoke these words:
"Three hundred years ago a ship called the Mayflower set sail to the New World. This was a great event in the history of England. Yet I wonder if there is one Englishman who knows at what time the ship set sail? Do the English know how many people embarked on the voyage? What quality of bread did they eat? Yet more than three thousand three hundred years ago, before the Mayflower set sail, the Jews left Egypt. Every Jew in the world, even in America or Soviet Russia, knows what kind of bread the Jews ate - Matza. Even today the Jews worldwide eat Matza on the 15th of Nisan. They retell the story of the Exodus and all of the troubles Jews have endured since being exiled, saying: This year, slaves, next year, free! This year here - Next year in Jerusalem, in Zion, in Eretz Yisrael. That is the nature of the Jews."
"300 years ago, there came to the New World a boat, and its name was the Mayflower. The Mayflower’s landing on Plymouth Rock was one of the great historical events in the history of England and in the history of America. But I would like to ask any Englishman sitting here on the commission, what day did the Mayflower leave port? What date was it? I’d like to ask the Americans: do they know what date the Mayflower left port in England? How many people were on the boat? Who were their leaders? What kind of food did they eat on the boat?
"More than 3300 years ago, long before the Mayflower, our people left Egypt, and every Jew in the world, wherever he is, knows what day they left. And he knows what food they ate. And we still eat that food every anniversary. And we know who our leader was. And we sit down and tell the story to our children and grandchildren in order to guarantee that it will never be forgotten. And we say our two slogans: 'Now we may be enslaved, but next year, we’ll be a free people.'
". . . Now we are behind the Soviet Union and their prison. Now, we’re in Germany where Hitler is destroying us. Now we’re scattered throughout the world, but next year, we’ll be in Jerusalem. There’ll come a day that we’ll come home to Zion, to the Land of Israel. That is the nature of the Jewish people."

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 11:33:38 AM »
^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2014, 11:35:05 AM »
Here are Ben Gurion's pearls of wisdom at the UN in 1947
He spoke of Jews receiving the land after yetzias mitzrayim. Do his Children observe seder night? ?
 
Whats the difference? The point is that it is NOT inherently a Jewish land if one does not believe in creation and the torah. These Jews have no inherent claim to the land because they have occupied it intermittently throughout history.

+1

^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.
They don't claim to own the land!  ;D

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2014, 11:40:51 AM »
^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.
The point was illustrating the OP's point which is that without adhering to the Torah and belief creation, zionism is a joke and a myth.
Are you not following the thread? Im not looking to bash people who dont keep pesach, just mocking the zionists who are atheists.  ROLFLMAO

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 11:43:51 AM »

The point was illustrating the OP's point which is that without adhering to the Torah and belief creation, zionism is a joke and a myth.
Are you not following the thread? Im not looking to bash people who dont keep pesach, just mocking the zionists who are atheists.  ROLFLMAO

Satmar Uber Allis. 

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 11:46:47 AM »
Satmar Uber Allis.
I am the furthest thing from satmar that you can imagine.
Are you not a religious zionist? If you're a secular zionist please explain your position. Even ben gurion couldn't articulate it without referencing emuna.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »

I am the furthest thing from satmar that you can imagine.
Are you not a religious zionist? If you're a secular zionist please explain your position. Even ben gurion couldn't articulate it without referencing emuna.

I'm not a Zionist, it's just that your views are eerily similar to what's found in jihadi media.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 11:50:35 AM »
I'm not a Zionist, it's just that your views are eerily similar to what's found in jihadi media.
They make the same claims referenced in Rashi. The answer obviously is in the Rashi also.
You are not really addressing the issue of secular zionism, so enjoy the rest of your day!

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 11:51:41 AM »

They make the same claims referenced in Rashi. The answer obviously is in the Rashi also.
You are not really addressing the issue of secular zionism, so enjoy the rest of your day!

What was the question about secular Zionism?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »
Can someone please explain this to me?
How can someone that's not religious lay claim to Israel because it says in the Torah it belongs to the Jews if they anyways don't keep the Torah?

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 11:57:09 AM »
I'm not a Zionist, it's just that your views are eerily similar to what's found in jihadi media.
Could be. Except for the part where I believe EY belongs to the Jews because it says it in the Torah.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2014, 11:57:23 AM »

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2014, 12:19:42 PM »
Can someone please explain this to me?
How can someone that's not religious lay claim to Israel because it says in the Torah it belongs to the Jews if they anyways don't keep the Torah?
Jews were given a piece of land by an occupying power, it was also voted on by a majority (2/3) of the civilized nations in the world (UN). Israel then survived multiple (mostly) uninstigated wars and in so doing managed to procure more land. Based on recent history (Holocaust, pogroms etc) it is not unreasonable to think that if Jews did not have their own land they could easily be persecuted in the harshest of manners. For all of these reasons, many logical (non-religious) people conclude that Israel has a legitimate claim to their country. 

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 12:36:33 PM »
They make the same claims referenced in Rashi. The answer obviously is in the Rashi also.
You are not really addressing the issue of secular zionism, so enjoy the rest of your day!
What was the question about secular Zionism?
Dunno. Ask a secular Zionist.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 12:37:32 PM »
Jews were given a piece of land by an occupying power, it was also voted on by a majority (2/3) of the civilized nations in the world (UN). Israel then survived multiple (mostly) uninstigated wars and in so doing managed to procure more land. Based on recent history (Holocaust, pogroms etc) it is not unreasonable to think that if Jews did not have their own land they could easily be persecuted in the harshest of manners. For all of these reasons, many logical (non-religious) people conclude that Israel has a legitimate claim to their country.
All good and well but it doesn't address the Arabs' claim that they were there first...

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2014, 12:38:35 PM »

All good and well but it doesn't address the Arabs' claim that they were there first...

What's their proof?

Offline meshugener

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2014, 12:40:10 PM »
^ what's your point? There are many Satmar Chasidim whose children don't celebrate Pesach.
Where does Satmar come into here?
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2014, 12:42:24 PM »

Where does Satmar come into here?

They are the flip side of Zionism.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2014, 12:43:44 PM »
Jews were given a piece of land by an occupying power, it was also voted on by a majority (2/3) of the civilized nations in the world (UN). Israel then survived multiple (mostly) uninstigated wars and in so doing managed to procure more land. Based on recent history (Holocaust, pogroms etc) it is not unreasonable to think that if Jews did not have their own land they could easily be persecuted in the harshest of manners. For all of these reasons, many logical (non-religious) people conclude that Israel has a legitimate claim to their country.
That's not an answer to land they took by themselves.
They were never given Jerusalem, Golan and Juda & Samaria.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Zionist Mindset
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 12:44:33 PM »
They are the flip side of Zionism.
Gotcha
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