million man atzeres

[Moshe123]

+1000. Could not have said it better myself.

When Hilonim vote against Haredim doesn't change anything.
It shows that kofrim hate frum Jews. Always have.
The mizrachi are the same, but that's sin'as amei haaretz letalmid chacham.

[PlatinumGuy]

How many DL's hide their kipot at work?

Just as many as haredim who work. The difference is that many haredim don't work and instead ask those who do take off their yarmulkes to support them. It's not a joke I see it every single day in my shul.

(btw I'm not saying that they shouldn't be asking for others to support them, because they should, but you can't then condemn them for doing what it takes to earn the money)

[Moshe123]

Just as many as haredim who work. The difference is that many haredim don't work and instead ask those who do take off their yarmulkes to support them. It's not a joke I see it every single day in my shul.

(btw I'm not saying that they shouldn't be asking for others to support them, because they should, but you can't then condemn them for doing what it takes to earn the money)

The vast majority of Haredim work.
It would be nice if you wouldn't buy every lie that the secular spew.

[elikay]

A kiddush Hashem has nothing to do with how our anti-Semitic friends perceive it. And definitely nothing to do with how the amei Haaretz see it.

+1,000,000
Huge misconception out there.
If you are doing the right thing, it does not matter what others think.

[SamKey]

Yeah read the comments here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/thousands-orthodox-jews-protest-israeli-draft-article-1.1715987

I only hope people that comment on these pages are really just the bored ones

[zale]

The vast majority of Haredim work.
It would be nice if you wouldn't buy every lie that the secular spew.

Large numbers of Chareidim in Israel do NOT work and do NOT pay taxes. This is not a secular lie, there is actual data to back this up. Contrary to your apparent opinion, not every secular Israeli hates Frum people, but they will certainly not tolerate a group of people mooching of the government and contributing NOTHING in return. If these groups would at least provide MORAL support to the government or to the army that would be one thing (like Chabad does), but NO, they criticize and curse the government and plaster Meah Shearim with anti-government signs making the whole neighborhood look like a slum.

Using the Torah as a basis to mooch off the government is the absolute greatest Chillul Hashem one can make. How can you walk around saying the Torah commands us to be fruitful and multiply and then use the money from taxpayers to support a large family? It would be a major Kiddush Hashem to work your butt off to support those children, then you are showing that you will follow the Torah, no matter how big the burden is on you.

If there is one country that is fed up with this, it's Israel. The Chareidim can make this right, but they have to be willing to do so. 

[Moshe123]

btw, those kooks in MS don't take a dime from the government FYI.

[Moshe123]

This is supposedly a Jewish state.
How about your average charedi resents that his fellow Jew eats pork, is mechalel shabbos, is megale arayos etc. etc.
How about sharing the burden?
The government spends way more for the secular per capita than for charedim.
Who uses all the sports funding?
The theaters funding?
Universities for mada'ei ha'ruach?
The entire police units for busting gangs?
Entire Shabak division for lawless mizrachists?
The jails full of murderers?
The jails full of rapists?

Charedim consume a lot and there is a tax on everything. Buying houses and so much more.

[zale]

btw, those kooks in MS don't take a dime from the government FYI.

Except that their security is guaranteed by their Chazzer-fressing, Mechalel Shabbos, Pritzus-loving bretheren who spill their blood on behalf of the Tzaddikim that live in Meah Shearim.

[Moshe123]

Except that their security is guaranteed by their Chazzer-fressing, Mechalel Shabbos, Pritzus-loving bretheren who spill their blood on behalf of the Tzaddikim that live in Meah Shearim.

I'm not even talking about those people as they want the dissolution of the state.

[PlatinumGuy]

btw, those kooks in MS don't take a dime from the government FYI.

Oh yes they do. It's just the schools that are independent. You won't find them volunteering to pay hospital bills instead of the government (except for a few lunatics that do home births and etc).

Except that their security is guaranteed by their Chazzer-fressing, Mechalel Shabbos, Pritzus-loving bretheren who spill their blood on behalf of the Tzaddikim that live in Meah Shearim.

The incremental cost to securing the MS population is minimal, if it all. The army is defending land, not people. The arabs want the land, not the bodies.

[PlatinumGuy]

How about your average charedi resents that his fellow Jew eats pork, is mechalel shabbos, is megale arayos etc. etc.

So?

How about sharing the burden?

Again, what are you talking about?

Who uses all the sports funding?
The theaters funding?
Universities for mada'ei ha'ruach?
The entire police units for busting gangs?
Entire Shabak division for lawless mizrachists?
The jails full of murderers?
The jails full of rapists?

Every single one of those contributes to the entire states residents. (Israel's standing amongst the other countries in the world establishes the Shekel as a currency which allows you to buy foreign goods)

Charedim consume a lot and there is a tax on everything.

That doesn't help if they're using gov't funding for the purchases. If the government gives someone $100, and he buys $100 of goods, the $17 taxes are coming from the govt, not his pocket.

Buying houses and so much more.

Although it's not what you said, it's true that presence of the premier makom torah in yerushalaim contributes to the extremely high real estate prices which directly benefit the government.

[yare]

The most recent Israeli elections speaks volumes about how Chareidim are perceived in Israel, and they have been booted in large part from the Knesset.

ignorant comment. the recent israeli election gave the chareidim just as many seats in knesset as they ever have. they have been booted from nowhere. the coalition that was formed didn't include them (for the moment), but that has nothing to do with peoples votes or the "perception" in israel.

Except that their security is guaranteed by their Chazzer-fressing, Mechalel Shabbos, Pritzus-loving bretheren who spill their blood on behalf of the Tzaddikim that live in Meah Shearim.

another ignorant comment. those that live in meah shearim posting anti zionist pashkavilim were there long before their chazzer fressing zionist brethren decided israel would be a convenient place for a zionistic stand. and they never had a need or want for anyones security, other than Gd. 

get your facts straight before spewing.

[Moshe123]

Again, what are you talking about?
Every single one of those contributes to the entire states residents.

If everyone would have been charedi, they wouldn't need all this costs for sports teams, gang busters, theaters, jails for murderers and rapists and so much more.
I resent my tax dollars that I spend when I'm there going to fund this garbage.

[PlatinumGuy]

If everyone would have been charedi, they wouldn't need all this costs for sports teams, gang busters, theaters, jails for murderers and rapists and so much more.

Israel would be a 3rd world country, the shekel would be unstable and very low compared to the dollar, so you would have difficulty buying foreign goods (like Israel has in it's first 20 years). Not to mention cost of debt would be at least 10% more, like other 3rd world countries.


Theaters are a business not government funded.

There are frum criminals - I know quite a few myself. You still need police and jails for them.

[Aaaron]

If everyone would have been charedi, they wouldn't need all this costs for sports teams, gang busters, theaters, jails for murderers and rapists and so much more.
I resent my tax dollars that I spend when I'm there going to fund this garbage.

Right, because there are no Chareidi murderers, rapists, sexual deviants, drug users, etc. 

You're truly delusional.

Here come no true Scotsman. 

[shmuelb]

SPEW! (special for Tolik )

The army is not protecting those who learn Torah, it is the other way around. Rav Kook himself wrote that one who sits and learns Torah is doing more for the state than one who joins the army and fights.

Haredi participation in the workplace in Israel is much higher than some of you think. I personally paid the gov. direct taxes in the last 12 months over 45 thousand shekel. I get 340 shekel Kollel stipend, we pay bituach leumi double and we get 840 shekel children's allowance, which is in lieu of dependant deductible on income tax,

If you want to know what sharing the burden means, read the back of the 200 shekel bill.

It is a joke to call Haredim mooching off the gov and not working. Almost all Kollel wives work and many avreichim do too. You have a problem that they are not like you? They should live to work and work to live?!? They follow Rav Kook that Hashem gave us the Torah to live and to learn, if they choose to learn more and earn less, that is beautiful! If you want to go to the army and serve, kol hakovode!! Any Haredi can do that too, though even DL Rabbis agree that the army is not the right place for haredis. The new law is not helping anyone go to the army. Spew!

The gov. spends enormous amounts of money on theaters etc. You have no musag. Notice the recent campaign Jerusalem ihr hasratim? Hashem Yishmore!

[Moshe123]

Right, because there are no Chareidi murderers, rapists, sexual deviants, drug users, etc. 

You're truly delusional.

Here come no true Scotsman. 

Negligible when compared to the secular. One jail would suffice.

[PlatinumGuy]

I get 340 shekel Kollel stipend, we pay bituach leumi double and we get 840 shekel children's allowance, which is in lieu of dependant deductible on income tax,

You get school for your kids and healthcare for your family, which depending on how many kids you have probably cost the government more than the $9000 annual taxes you're paying (45000 minus 1180/mo)

[PlatinumGuy]

The gov. spends enormous amounts of money on theaters etc. You have no musag. Notice the recent campaign Jerusalem ihr hasratim? Hashem Yishmore!

Every city does that and they make up for it in tax revenues