Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[yelped]

"The blessed reality is that Hamas does not have – and never had – even on October 7th – the capacity to pose a real existential threat to most of the Jews of Israel. They do not have anywhere near the necessary manpower or military equipment to actually take over the country and kick us out, even if that is their fervent wish and stated goal. A fervent wish and stated goal does not an existential threat make. The fact that Hamas was able to pull off such a deadly attack on a scale never seen before is more a testament to the utter failure of the defense establishment to prepare for a glaring threat on the horizon than the military capacity of Hamas’ fighters".
From Rabbi kornreich.
How does this make any sense according to his view of the army is only needed to defend the state but not the Jews? This means he recognizes that the only reason Hamas can't annihilate all the Jews in Israel r"l is because of the defense establishment

His whole writing is incoherent and senseless. To be honest, I think the only reason this got published is to arrouse hatred against Frum Jews. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

[yitzgar]

I think he actually makes some good hashkafic points (not that I agree with everything) I just wouldn't say they lead to his conclusions

[EliJelly]

"The blessed reality is that Hamas does not have – and never had – even on October 7th – the capacity to pose a real existential threat to most of the Jews of Israel. They do not have anywhere near the necessary manpower or military equipment to actually take over the country and kick us out, even if that is their fervent wish and stated goal. A fervent wish and stated goal does not an existential threat make. The fact that Hamas was able to pull off such a deadly attack on a scale never seen before is more a testament to the utter failure of the defense establishment to prepare for a glaring threat on the horizon than the military capacity of Hamas’ fighters".
From Rabbi kornreich.

How does this make any sense according to his view of the army is only needed to defend the state but not the Jews? This means he recognizes that the only reason Hamas can't annihilate all the Jews in Israel r"l is because of the defense establishment

His argument is that because there is a sovereign state there is now a need to protect the Jews, so as long as the army can do the job on their own the burden should be on them. Otherwise, if the existential threat would be of such magnitude that the army wouldn't be able to handle that on their own without the Chareidim partaking in the effort, then they would indeed be required to serve regardless of what brought us to that situation in the first place. Currently, given the IDF's far superior capabilities than Hamas's, the IDF in it's current state is pretty much able to handle that, so it's back to the basic question on whom the burden should lie.

[yitzgar]

How does this make any sense according to his view of the army is only needed to defend the state but not the Jews? This means he recognizes that the only reason Hamas can't annihilate all the Jews in Israel r"l is because of the defense establishment


His argument is that because there is a sovereign state there is now a need to protect the Jews, so as long as the army can do the job on their own the burden should be on them. Otherwise, if the existential threat would be of such magnitude that the army wouldn't be able to handle that on their own without the Chareidim partaking in the effort, then they would indeed be required to serve regardless of what brought us to that situation in the first place. Currently, given the IDF's far superior capabilities than Hamas's, the IDF in it's current state is pretty much able to handle that, so it's back to the basic question on whom the burden should lie.

No, he says that now that there is a state, you have to deal with the facts on the ground. Saying that it's "their" fault so now "we" don't have to help is very childish (whoever "they" and "we" are anyway, 75 years later). I'm pretty sure he was saying that everyone should help if needed to protect lives, but not to protect the state meaning Israeli sovereignty. It's a nice pipe dream, but we know that Hamas etc are genocidal, and they don't just care about a Jewish state, even if he is right that that was the original cause of their hatred.

[EliJelly]

https://halachaheadlines.com/episodes/revisiting-bachurim-in-the-idf-is-shevet-levi-patur-from-milchemes-mitzvah-are-all-bochurim-shevet-levi/

[UKinNYS]

Israel can afford a professional army. Manpower can always be supplemented by hired mercenaries. The reason for the draft is political in origin if not in practice. 

Manpower is only a fraction of billions that the army wildy spends, see just latest: https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/government-israel/smotrich-freezes-purchase-of-f-35-f-15-fighter-squadrons-from-the-us/2024/04/05/

And IMO there should not be a price on even 1 Jewish life. It's painful to say but there's (was?) a belief that we need davka Jewish soldiers to fight (and die r'l) to show we are a legit country. (רק בדם תהי' לנו הארץ)

Putin has no prob with hired guns (wagner group) France has the foreign legion do its dirty work (mostly africans) even the US has historically used all sorts of hired contractors (blackwater etc.)

As an aside, often not mentioned: The army does not recruit many hilltop youth for the same reason they don't take Arabs - their ideology is incompatible with the IDF
I find this very telling, why would someone who sympathizes with Kahane (as I and many do) be a threat to a JEWISH army.

Shabbat shalom.

[aygart]

Why is her title Attorney General and not Supreme Leader?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-07/ty-article/.premium/israeli-govt-says-no-bridging-gaps-with-ag-on-ultra-orthodox-army-exemption/0000018e-b92c-d8b4-a3be-fd2f473c0000

[CountValentine]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-soldier-deaths-in-gaza-war-are-reshaping-a-generation/ar-BB1lqvhj

[yitzgar]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-soldier-deaths-in-gaza-war-are-reshaping-a-generation/ar-BB1lqvhj

Yeshiva students try to follow the rules of Orthodox Jewish practice during their deployments in Gaza, including praying three times a day and studying religious texts. They sometimes find the Israeli military’s secular environment—in which men and women mix freely—to be a culture shock. But fighting side by side on the battlefield has at times also helped bridge the divides.

Jackman’s friend, Eitan Rosenzweig, who was killed in November, was a deeply religious student and talented artist who once drew an 11-foot-long scroll depicting the history of the Jewish people. After being deployed to Gaza, he was unsettled by the presence of a female paramedic in the crew of his cramped armored vehicle.

“Wow, they put a woman with us, that’s not OK,” he told his parents in a phone call. By the next call, he was getting used to it and said her name was Maayan. After Rosenzweig’s death, Maayan attended a mourning ritual for him in Yerucham. “They became friends,” his mother, Hagit, said.

[UKinNYS]

rough translation:
"Israel: sanction the chareidim who don't go to the army.
US: sanction the chareidim who DO go to the army."
can't win.

[EliJelly]

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-798907

"Sephardi chief rabbi: Success of air defense is due to yeshivas, not the IDF"

[mevinyavin]

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800589
Headline is a bit misleading - they joined the border police, and it doesn't say which community of charedim. And is it really the first time an ultra-Orthodox was drafted? Was it against their will or did they decide to join up? JPost...

Border Police drafts 30 members of ultra-Orthodox community in historic induction
The IDF drafted 30 members of the ultra-Orthodox community at the Tel Hashomer induction center and base into mandatory service in the Border Police, on Thursday.

This marks the first draft of this kind in the IDF's history.

[Moshe Green]

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800589
Headline is a bit misleading - they joined the border police, and it doesn't say which community of charedim. And is it really the first time an ultra-Orthodox was drafted? Was it against their will or did they decide to join up? JPost...

I didn't read the post, but knowing the JPost, its fake news...

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/ptr_dvd/status/1792137865717014958

[Shmuel K]

First Rashi this weeks Parsha says אם בחקתי תלכו means  שתהיו עמלים בתורה then few pesukkim later ונתתי שלום בארץ seems clear enough to me who is protecting who.

[yelped]

First Rashi this weeks Parsha says אם בחקתי תלכו means  שתהיו עמלים בתורה then few pesukkim later ונתתי שלום בארץ seems clear enough to me who is protecting who.

What else does it say in those few pesukim?

[Shmuel K]

Basically that there will be rains in the proper times and lots of crops and you will be secure in the land. Feel free to see it inside for yourself.

[yelped]

Basically that there will be rains in the proper times and lots of crops and you will be secure in the land. Feel free to see it inside for yourself.

Ok, so sounds like we should all be farmers who learn and fight.

[ExGingi]

I heard today a great comeback:

Leftist: why don't you charedim serve in the IDF?
Charedi: we can't serve as long as Bibi is PM.

[YitzyS]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/middleeast/israel-orthodox-military-high-court-intl/index.html