Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[Moshe123]

We never showed our contempt for them before this incitement by the secular and the secular lite started.

We all know how everyone was talking about them until this.

[PlatinumGuy]

The army is full of znus, chilul Shabbos, kfira and all sorts of aveiros. Even leaving zionism aside, a frum Jew even if he doesn't learn, shouldn't set foot there.

None of that would be true if there was a critical mass of charedi soldiers.

[tzvicoco]

The army is full of znus, chilul Shabbos, kfira and all sorts of aveiros. Even leaving zionism aside, a frum Jew even if he doesn't learn, shouldn't set foot there.

The world is full of znus, chilul Shabbos, kfira and all sorts of aveiros. And frum Jews have the opportunity and duty to make things better. Again, I support the right and obligation to learn, but to not give back to the country and the organization that defends everybody within it is a chilul Hashem. There is room for compromise. See my earlier comment about bein hazmanim.
That being said, for a frum Jew that has enough bitachon I think the army is a wonderful thing and indeed preferable.

[Moshe123]

None of that would be true if there was a critical mass of charedi soldiers.

We all know what takes precedence in the army even for mizrachists. The commander or halacha?

[Moshe123]

The world is full of znus, chilul Shabbos, kfira and all sorts of aveiros. And frum Jews have the opportunity and duty to make things better. Again, I support the right and obligation to learn, but to not give back to the country and the organization that defends everybody within it is a chilul Hashem. There is room for compromise. See my earlier comment about bein hazmanim.
That being said, for a frum Jew that has enough bitachon I think the army is a wonderful thing and indeed preferable.

We do all that we can to be machzir bitshuva as many as we can and it's evidenced by the multitudes of bt's. We don't have to join their swamp. Leaving aside that we aren't and never were zionists even if we weren't openly hostile.

[tzvicoco]

We do all that we can to be machzir bitshuva as many as we can and it's evidenced by the multitudes of bt's. We don't have to join their swamp. Leaving aside that we aren't and never were zionists even if we weren't openly hostile.

I know many a frum Jew to come out of the army just as frum. But to you I suppose that's just hearsay or a lie or a few exceptions. If there was a way to guarantee a charedi environment in national service, would you still be against it? Do you see a value in giving back?

[PlatinumGuy]

We all know what takes precedence in the army even for mizrachists. The commander or halacha?

in halacha as well the Dr's decision trumps the Rabbi

[Moshe123]

in halacha as well the Dr's decision trumps the Rabbi

Well, no.

[ariIs]

We do all that we can to be machzir bitshuva as many as we can and it's evidenced by the multitudes of bt's. We don't have to join their swamp. Leaving aside that we aren't and never were zionists even if we weren't openly hostile.

Would you care to elaborate on what swamp are you referring to?
Who is this 'we' in relation to 'bts'?
Bemakom baal tshevua omed, ein tzadik omed.

[Moshe123]

The swamp is where they were before they became bt's. Now they're the cream of the crop.

[churnbabychurn]

While we all agree that bochrim should not be removed from yeshiva I think its very disturbing the disrespect some charedim show to those that do serve. They actually risk their lives protecting them too. Imagine we in American would show the same attitude towards our military.

what you talking about? The chareidim are the ones called "blood sucking vermin, who have too many children", no one disrespects the chilonim. The chareidim just want to be left alone. Its called status quo. Lapid and his modox crony hate us.

[tzvicoco]

The swamp is where they were before they became bt's. Now they're the cream of the crop.

no one disrespects the chilonim.

Seems like Moshe123 invalidates your point imho

[churnbabychurn]

Seems like Moshe123 invalidates your point imho

nah, he's just responding to people implying that the chareidim are the race baiters and instigators of this hatred.  An absolute fallacy. 
Chareidim have no interest in bashing the chilonim. Only when they are victims of attempted social engineering by people who can't fa'gin do they respond this way.

[Aaaron]

nah, he's just responding to people implying that the chareidim are the race baiters and instigators of this hatred.  An absolute fallacy. 
Chareidim have no interest in bashing the chilonim. Only when they are victims of attempted social engineering by people who can't fa'gin do they respond this way.

C'mon, you know as well as I that Chareidim are generally elitist xenophobes.  Not all of them go out and disrespect others and preach their feelings/beliefs, but 99% of them feel that way.

[Moshe123]

I say it loud.
The chilonim, the kofrim bashem, the kofrim ba'ikar, the mechalelei Shabbos, the bo'alei nidos, the megalei arayos, the ochlei bsar hachazir.
Yuck!!
הלא משנאיך ה' אשנא!