Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[AsherO]

I know so many people with two phones. People from the community get the kosher number, everyone else gets the regular phone. WhatsApp is the new modern version of נייס. Let's not kid ourselves here

Hot take: it’s a bad sign if this is the norm. Instead of optimizing the definition of Kosher phone, you have people with a crippled kosher dumbphone and also what is likely an unfiltered treif smartphone

[yfr bachur]

I know so many people with two phones. People from the community get the kosher number, everyone else gets the regular phone. WhatsApp is the new modern version of נייס. Let's not kid ourselves here

Hot take: it’s a bad sign if this is the norm. Instead of optimizing the definition of Kosher phone, you have people with a crippled kosher dumbphone and also what is likely an unfiltered treif smartphone

Not the worst take.
(I happen to be involved somewhat tangentialy in the sugya)
It's takeh a problem.
But depends on each community...
Some are totaly pure only kosher phone, with very little of the second phone in the other pocket, and if yes, filtered well, while others have major issues...
On the other hand to @LongTimeLurker's point - A bachur who has whatsapp, texting... especially in a way that the army can tie the number to him...Is most likely not a chareidi  full time learner "toraso umnaso".

[mevinyavin]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ag-says-army-must-also-draft-full-time-yeshiva-students-not-just-working-haredim/
AG says army must also draft full-time yeshiva students, not just working Haredim
IDF’s decision to begin ultra-Orthodox draft with those not studying Torah full-time is legally problematic and constitutes ‘selective enforcement,’ argues deputy Gil Limon

[Ergel]

They more or less started from "chareidim" who are not in yeshiva anyway...
... daring us to go die on the hill protecting the "Toraso Umnaso" of a bachur with a truck license...

Or the people making decisions realized they only need so many people and decided that they don't want to disrupt the lomdei torah (as heard on kol baramah this morning)

[AsherO]

Or the people making decisions realized they only need so many people and decided that they don't want to disrupt the lomdei torah (as heard on kol baramah this morning)

More like it was a negotiated "compromise" (at least in the eyes of the negotiating parties) that allows one side to say they're not disrupting Torah study and the other side to say they're drafting Haredis.

[ExGingi]

Last night's shiur from R' Brog is titled "Taking money from the Israeli gov't" - https://torahanytime.com/lectures/309349

It's not only Brisk, but the entire Eida Chareidis doesn't take for their institutions.

And even then - the money has to be kosher: https://matzav.com/rav-avrohom-yehoshua-soloveitchiks-red-line/

IINM the Rebbe's approach was that if you don't take their money you are depriving them of the zchus of supporting לימוד תורה.

[solmeir]

IINM the Rebbe's approach was that if you don't take their money you are depriving them of the zchus of supporting לימוד תורה.

So I guess they voluntarily gave up that zechus….

[ExGingi]

So I guess they voluntarily gave up that zechus….

Israeli tax revenue supports Yeshivos to one extent or another.

[EliJelly]

IINM the Rebbe's approach was that if you don't take their money you are depriving them of the zchus of supporting לימוד תורה.

The Rayatz has some letters to the effect that we do not want that קליפה to be יונק מצד הקדושה

ביבוש קצירה תישברנה

[gozalim]

IINM the Rebbe's approach was that if you don't take their money you are depriving them of the zchus of supporting לימוד תורה.

maybe it's just my impression, but send to me that the Rebbe's insistence on voting (not wasting the vote) seems to have been more broadly/strongly shared/applied aka הוראה לרבים, relative to this issue

[mevinyavin]

The comments on this article are interesting...

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/398409
MK Galit Distel Atbaryan: 'The IDF doesn't know how to handle haredim - that's the truth'
Likud MK Galit Distel Atbaryan explains why she understands the haredi community's opposition to the Draft Law, hopes Supreme Court won't torpedo anti-terrorist law.

The IDF is not ready to enlist haredi recruits, and haredim have a good reason not to wish to enlist, MK Galit Distel Atbaryan (Likud) said.

Atbaryan, who is not haredi herself, expressed support for the haredi public, saying that the army is a "secularizing army."

"What is happening to the haredi community is infuriating and sad," she told Arutz Sheva - Israel National News. "The haredim have no voice in the media and they have a case, and we need to listen to them. The campaign against them is so populist."

"It's evident in the fact that a representative of the IDF came to the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and said that the IDF is not prepared to draft more than 3,000 haredim a year. If that is the case, then the entire campaign is a lie. At the conference I held with the haredi soldiers, they all told me that the IDF is not prepared to enlist haredim.

"A haredi combat soldier who enlisted in 2013 along with 200 other haredim sat at the conference and said that he is the only, only one who did not take off his kipa (skullcap) and beard. They all became irreligious. There's a culture shock. The IDF does not allow haredi soldiers to become officers and their commanders are secular people who do not understand their ways. It's basically the Secularization Army of Israel."

She added, "The IDF is passing this hot potato between the court and the political echelon, they have a lot of distortions, populism, and a lack of public awareness, and there are not enough people who speak the truth."

Separately, Atbaryan is now advancing a bill which would propose blocking prisoners affiliated with terror groups from receiving visitors: "We have an anomaly here, where terror groups who hold women and men prisoner, and terrorists who acted on their own, receive visits from family members. I am embarrassed that I needed to legislate a law like this. The bill passed its preliminary reading and I really hope that the path to its final legislation will be easy."

However, there is pressure to torpedo the bill: "There is mostly pressure from the courts, this bill passed with the help of the Prime Minister's Office and Justice Ministry. The National Security Council has more conditions, for example, to allow Red Cross visits so as not to allow international provocations. I hope the court will not shoot it down."

[LongTimeLurker]

The comments on this article are interesting...

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/398409

Because they're in English and it's mostly either non Israelis or an anglo minority. The Hebrew ones are much more reflective of the thinking of Israeli society https://www.inn.co.il/news/652053

The only reason there aren't new elections now is because the opposition is feckless

[LongTimeLurker]

And if you want to know how the vast majority of non haredi Jews feel, both dati leumi and hiloni feel, you should read this article

https://m.maariv.co.il/journalists/article-1144443

[mevinyavin]

And if you want to know how the vast majority of non haredi Jews feel, both dati leumi and hiloni feel, you should read this article

https://m.maariv.co.il/journalists/article-1144443

Thanks for posting it. Although I haven't seen it put in quite this way, I have enough of an imagination to guess that this was the case. Even Arutz Sheva, which I posted, also has non-stop articles from Dati-Leumi sources saying similar (if not quite as explicit) things.
One thing is for sure - they are in true, genuine pain over the situation. The Charedi position being expressed goes over like a brick through a delicate sculpture.

[aygart]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1853519633997042000

[EliJelly]

Galant's order or just following the Bagatz's order?

[yungermanchik]

Thank you for the picture!

[Moshe Green]

Breaking News!

Israel to pull ambassador from Argentinian following Millei's reading from a Chumash by official Argentinian event.

"We protest this anti-Democratic and extreme religious act by the Argentine Government. We will have no part in this archaic and primitive country."

[yfr bachur]

Breaking News!
Israels Attorney General demand that Israel pull ambassador from Argentinian following Millei's reading from a Chumash by official Argentinian event.

"We protest this anti-Democratic and extreme religious act by the Argentine Government. We will have no part in this archaic and primitive country."

FTFY

[yfr bachur]

sorry to post from this blogger, but this time maybe he has a point...
https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1228885&post_id=151596585

כוחי ועוצם ידי applies to Charedi actions too.