Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[Chilla]

-1

[Chuchum Ainer]

sorry to post from this blogger, but this time maybe he has a point...
https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1228885&post_id=151596585

כוחי ועוצם ידי applies to Charedi actions too.

The argument he makes (that, see? By physically resisiting the draft you show you don't trust in hashem) is not even worthy for a Twitter bot

[Ergel]

The argument he makes (that, see? By physically resisiting the draft you show you don't trust in hashem) is not even worthy for a Twitter bot

Strawman

[dovy2]

isnt there a thread for this?

[yfr bachur]

isnt there a thread for this?

In JS.

[AsherO]

In JS.

Close enough, I move the discussion here

[yfr bachur]

The argument he makes (that, see? By physically resisiting the draft you show you don't trust in hashem) is not even worthy for a Twitter bot

I didnt mean that point specifically.
I mean the slur thrown at the Army that its כוחי ועוצם ידי... But when the chareidim do a hafgana and say that "See! Hafganot work!"... It is also כוחי ועוצם ידי.

[jye]

I didnt mean that point specifically.
I mean the slur thrown at the Army that its כוחי ועוצם ידי... But when the chareidim do a hafgana and say that "See! Hafganot work!"... It is also כוחי ועוצם ידי.

The hafganos are pure hishtadlus בדרך הטבע. The IDF כחי ועוצם ידי flies in the face of the reality of the למעלה מדרך הטבע that they continue to exist כשבה אחת בין שבעים זאבים literally.

The two are worlds apart.

[Ergel]

The hafganos are pure hishtadlus בדרך הטבע. The IDF כחי ועוצם ידי flies in the face of the reality of the למעלה מדרך הטבע that they continue to exist כשבה אחת בין שבעים זאבים literally.

The two are worlds apart.

I see, so the hishtadlus you agree with is bgeder hishtadlus, and the one you don't isn't...shocking

[Sam 77]

When was this poll added?

[imayid2]

Powerful presentation from Rav Shragi Kallus on the subject and how to respond to the "why do only my children need to die" question.
https://torahanytime.com/lectures/331144

[Definitions2]

Powerful presentation from Rav Shragi Kallus on the subject and how to respond to the "why do only my children need to die" question.
https://torahanytime.com/lectures/331144

I don't follow the logic.
The grudge is that some people are fighting for you and you're not helping out.
He's saying people in the past got killed because they were Jewish and they gave up their life to not bow down to the cross or the likes of that.
That's not what's happening here. Here people are volunteering to get killed for others. The examples given they didn't. They gave up their lives because they had to.

[AsherO]

I don't follow the logic.
The grudge is that some people are fighting for you and you're not helping out.
He's saying people in the past got killed because they were Jewish and they gave up their life to not bow down to the cross or the likes of that.
That's not what's happening here. Here people are volunteering to get killed for others. The examples given they didn't. They gave up their lives because they had to.

Someone should ask him if the soldiers dying are Kedoshim.

[Sam 77]

Someone should ask him if the soldiers dying are Kedoshim.

I was at a shuir with him last winter and 2 american soldiers walked in afterward's he spoke to them gave them respect and gave them a promise they will come out of Gaza alive

[AsherO]

and gave them a promise they will come out of Gaza alive

Didn't realize he was on THAT level...

[Definitions2]

Someone should ask him if the soldiers dying are Kedoshim.

I don't get what you're trying to point out

[EliJelly]

Someone should ask him if the soldiers dying are Kedoshim.

Any sources one way or the other or is this something one decides based on feelings?

[AsherO]

I don't get what you're trying to point out

If he says yes, then why is he putting two different forms of self sacrifice/kiddush hashem up against eachother.

[AsherO]

Any sources one way or the other or is this something one decides based on feelings?

I'm just asking for his opinion. Pretty clear that whatever sources I'd bring you'd be explaining to me why they don't apply. You've clearly already made your mind up.

[LongTimeLurker]

I've added a poll on the sister thread
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=136879.0