Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[Definitions2]

So now they need to move to avoid a moral obligation based on a situation forced upon them?

Would seem so.
I thought you would go in a different direction. Today, if there was no state, would there be anyone living today wanting to create a state? If yes, then you might be able to say they are responsible to maintain it.

[aygart]

Would seem so.
I thought you would go in a different direction. Today, if there was no state, would there be anyone living today wanting to create a state? If yes, then you might be able to say they are responsible to maintain it.

Why are they obligated?

[Definitions2]

Why are they obligated?

Taking about the latter? Not saying they are, just saying I thought you would go that way.

[Moshe Green]

Why are you making the cut-off at 75 years? An even 100 would be more logical...

Yes, if only there would have been a State of Israel during the Holocaust then all would have been fine.

Germany, the world superpower, would have been stopped by the Israeli army who can't even prevent 4,000 animals with small arms and a grand total of 0 tanks and planes from slaughtering 1,200 innocent civilians... If it wasn't for outside help (Hashem, if you believe, the US and other's if you don't) we would have been killed out many times over...

The Zionist experiment is over. Grade: F-

No safe haven. Hundreds of rockets falling every day.
No protection for Jews all over, UAE anyone?
No peace in the middle east. Only more nations have joined the fray
No end to Anti-Semitism. Just the opposite.
No "New Jew". Only lefty atheists who hate themselves and anything Jewish.

Please don't bring the Chareidim down with you. Their the ones who seem to know how to survive over the 2000 years of Galus... and it doesn't involve the IDF...

[aygart]

Taking about the latter? Not saying they are, just saying I thought you would go that way.

No, why does a situation created by other that they have no interest in being a part of create a moral obligation to join the army or move?

[Definitions2]

No, why does a situation created by other that they have no interest in being a part of create a moral obligation to join the army or move?

Because they currently do have an interest in the war. That is - living where they are.

Someone being born into not ideal circumstances doesn't absolve them of anything.

[aygart]

Because they currently do have an interest in the war. That is - living where they are.

Someone being born into not ideal circumstances doesn't absolve them of anything.

That seems like a way to force a demographic into something within one generation. Just absolve the current generation and now the next one is forced to follow the majority.

[Definitions2]

That seems like a way to force a demographic into something within one generation. Just absolve the current generation and now the next one is forced to follow the majority.

Yeah life can be cruel

[aygart]

Yeah life can be cruel

Or we can simply fix the cruelty by saying that the next generation also has no moral obligation. This is a cruelty created entirely by your creating this moral standard.

[Definitions2]

Or we can simply fix the cruelty by saying that the next generation also has no moral obligation. This is a cruelty created entirely by your creating this moral standard.

Next generations never have obligations from previous generations. That goes for both sides. The idea of children not being responsible for their parents is in my opinion a moral standard that you'd agree on.

You look at the present situation and decide on the moral obligations of the current times.

[aygart]

Next generations never have obligations from previous generations. That goes for both sides. The idea of children not being responsible for their parents is in my opinion a moral standard that you'd agree on.

You look at the present situation and decide on the moral obligations of the current times.

I am not talking about an obligation but rather a lack thereof.

[efflpetzel]

https://rebgershonribner.com/the-powerful-force-of-anti-semitism-unleashed-by-the-zionist-movement

where does he give his shmuezen?

[Definitions2]

where does he give his shmuezen?

In the side room of the lunchroom in bmg yoshon

[Definitions2]

I am not talking about an obligation but rather a lack thereof.

I don't have a good answer (i.e. situation that is similar) at the moment. Will think about it more.

[efflpetzel]

In the side room of the lunchroom in bmg yoshon

weekly?

[imayid2]

weekly?

I believe so

[Chuchum Ainer]

https://rebgershonribner.com/the-powerful-force-of-anti-semitism-unleashed-by-the-zionist-movement

I gotta say, it's way less hypocritical coming from a guy who lives in the USA. Much less logical when coming from someone who lives in Israel.

But either way, what hits me is the sharp tone against the "reshoim" who are the source of everything bad ever, while being respectful of Saadam Hussein for recognizing the difference between a Jew and a Zionist, and treating the Jews in his country well.

Never mind that there were maybe 1,000 Jews left in Iraq in his times, the rest having escaped (not to mention a number having been murdered). And never mind that he tried killing many many Jews (yeah, even he wasn't mavchin between the chareidim tehorim living in Israel and the zionist reshoim). If Saddam wasn't a zinoist, he couldn't have been that bad.

At least he recognizes the futility of getting the Arabs to recognize the chareidim from the zionists. Understands that:

"Let's assure the goyim that they have no reason to hate us, the real jews" has worked out so well the last thousand times it was tried.

[AsherO]

But either way, what hits me is the sharp tone against the "reshoim" who are the source of everything bad ever, while being respectful of Saadam Hussein for recognizing the difference between a Jew and a Zionist, and treating the Jews in his country well.

Never mind that there were maybe 1,000 Jews left in Iraq in his times, the rest having escaped (not to mention a number having been murdered). And never mind that he tried killing many many Jews (yeah, even he wasn't mavchin between the chareidim tehorim living in Israel and the zionist reshoim). If Saddam wasn't a zinoist, he couldn't have been that bad.

It’s all a tokenization scam. Saadam did it, the Iranians do it, the Woke “anti-Zionists” do it with their “Good Jews”. If this Rabbi believes it about Saadam, he’s being had.

[PaternalPrince]

https://rebgershonribner.com/the-powerful-force-of-anti-semitism-unleashed-by-the-zionist-movement

quoting a rabbi on a thread where there are people who obviously don't have much respect for Rabbis won't normally have a positive affect.

[EliJelly]

His example of Saddam indeed struck me as something which is totally off and factually not true.

Eta. In his defense, Wikipedia shows that things improved under his rule relative to the persecutions before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq#:~:text=Conditions%20improved%20as,regarding%20Jewish%20issues