Should chareidim be forced to go to the army?

[Aaaron]

I don't see a single contradiction.
I never even said a bad word against the mizrachi until the last ordeal. I was too much dan l'kaf zchus their behavior, but their actions in the past few years have proven me wrong. They detached themselves from frum Jewry and are going the way of the reform.
I pray every day that they should do teshuvah.

I'm not sure how you can love someone you show contempt for...

[ual902]

I am not Satmar and I love my fellow Jew like myself at the same time as I hate their anti-Torah lifestyle. I donate a lot to kiruv because of that.
And none of these groups that you mentioned are mizrachi.
The mizrachi would rather have richuk organizations to finish off whatever yiddishkeit they still have.

No one knows here what your talking about, there are many many Professionals in Teaneck and Engelwood, NJ the Five Towns all whom are Doctors, Dentists  and Lawyers and went to Harvard, Yale and other top name schools and are Kovea Itim La torah, wake up 5am goto a shiur and Daven with a Minyan,  they are in your definition Mizrachniks, at the same time they are  Kiovea Itim LaTorah, they are VERY well versed in G'Mara more then MANY Chasidim and   they support the IDF plus many Kiruv organizations such as Aish, chabad Breslov and more, so WHAT?! Big DEAL!!!

[Moshe123]

No one knows here what your talking about, there are many many Professionals in Teaneck and Engelwood, NJ the Five Towns all whom are Doctors, Dentists  and Lawyers and went to Harvard, Yale and other top name schools and are Kovea Itim La torah, wake up 5am goto a shiur and Daven with a Minyan,  they are in your definition Mizrachniks, at the same time they are  Kiovea Itim LaTorah, they are VERY well versed in G'Mara more then MANY Chasidim and   they support the IDF plus many Kiruv organizations such as Aish, chabad Breslov and more, so WHAT?! Big DEAL!!!

In the United States it's a big mish mash. Besides don't even get me started on how these "frum" women dress and how many of them are embarrassed by their Judaism and remove their kipot.
In Israel, the lines are clear. The vast majority of the mizrachists are sonei hadas and joined with all sonei hHashem to implement whatever gezeiros they can on the frum Jewry. They have gone against ALL gedolim.
What is left are a few faux "Rabbis"  that are שנה ופירש and let hear דברי אפיקורסות every other day.

[Moshe123]

And, good night.

[yoshi]

I learnt in a sichah of the rebbe. That the din of a tinok shenishba is אונס and אונס רחמנא פטרי. This being the case, the שמחה which hashem has when a secular yid does a mitzvah is unbelievable. And whatever they don't do isn't their fault....good night.

[Chaikel]

It's pretty amazing how this issue has revealed people who pretend to be frum Jews, as full blown apikorsim.
Ikvusa Dmishichasa?

[aygart]

More Chasidim Leave torah Judiaism  and end up hating torah and yidishkiet then Mizrachnkim \ Modern Orthodox this is a KNOWN fact.

Known fact #1: Most things stated as known facts are untrue and started to advance the speaker's agenda.

[Menachem613]

It's pretty amazing how this issue has revealed people who pretend to be frum Jews, as full blown apikorsim.
Ikvusa Dmishichasa?

I don't think Moishe123 is an Apikores. He's just misguided.

[PlatinumGuy]

WAY more then Mizrachim leaving and when Chatredim or Satmrs leave the fold, they just don't leave quietly, they make sure everyone knows about it with their tatoos etc!!

More Chasidim Leave torah Judiaism  and end up hating torah and yidishkiet then Mizrachnkim \ Modern Orthodox this is a KNOWN fact.

Not true at all you just think so because they're the ones making the noise

Their share in hell might be a little less, but that's about it.

Tinok shenshba has no hell. Be careful, you are close to kefira in schar v'onesh.

What is left are a few faux "Rabbis"  that are שנה ופירש and let hear דברי אפיקורסות every other day.

When all your "Rabbis" and "Gedolim" can be summed up by Drukman and co., it's not hard to see how much Judaism is left.

It is beyond debate that there are true talmidi chachomim in the mizrachi world. You can ask any charedi rosh yeshiva in Israel. היזהר בגחלתן

[PlatinumGuy]

And Btw Mr Moshe this is all a result of reading too much yated neeman, which is why I will not allow that paper in my home.

[rots5]

It's pretty amazing how this issue has revealed people who pretend to be frum Jews, as full blown apikorsim.
Ikvusa Dmishichasa?

+1 In general. People in america have no idea what they are saying it seems like.

[Moshe123]

And Btw Mr Moshe this is all a result of reading too much yated neeman, which is why I will not allow that paper in my home.

Neither have I....

[Moshe123]

It is beyond debate that there are true talmidi chachomim in the mizrachi world. You can ask any charedi rosh yeshiva in Israel. היזהר בגחלתן

Just because they know some Torah, doesn't mean that they have yiras shamayim.

[tzvicoco]

Just because they know some Torah, doesn't mean that they have yiras shamayim.

And just because they don't dress the way you do doesn't mean they don't.
Until the emergence of self-conscious orthodoxy in the 1800's, the distinctions we make about types of Jews were unheard of. But with the reform movement came the fear of movement to the left, so ultra-orthodoxy came to overcompensate for that threat. But those that stayed in the center, the ones that you now call "modern orthodox," were the ones that remained unchanged. So it's not that we have unlimited Kulas, it's just that you have unnecessary chumras that are improperly declared as deoraysa.

[Menachem613]

Just because they know some Torah, doesn't mean that they have yiras shamayim.

That applies to chareidim too.

[PlatinumGuy]

t's just that you have unnecessary chumras that are improperly declared as deoraysa.

Name 1

[Menachem613]

And just because they don't dress the way you do doesn't mean they don't.
Until the emergence of self-conscious orthodoxy in the 1800's, the distinctions we make about types of Jews were unheard of. But with the reform movement came the fear of movement to the left, so ultra-orthodoxy came to overcompensate for that threat. But those that stayed in the center, the ones that you now call "modern orthodox," were the ones that remained unchanged. So it's not that we have unlimited Kulas, it's just that you have unnecessary chumras that are improperly declared as deoraysa.

Rupture and Reconstruction covers this issue in depth.

[Moshe123]

And just because they don't dress the way you do doesn't mean they don't.
Until the emergence of self-conscious orthodoxy in the 1800's, the distinctions we make about types of Jews were unheard of. But with the reform movement came the fear of movement to the left, so ultra-orthodoxy came to overcompensate for that threat. But those that stayed in the center, the ones that you now call "modern orthodox," were the ones that remained unchanged. So it's not that we have unlimited Kulas, it's just that you have unnecessary chumras that are improperly declared as deoraysa.

The modx in my family didn't stay at the center.
3/4 of my family are like that. They are all those that became kalye in America.
They come from chassidish Galician families and from very frum Lithuanian families.
Almost all modox that I'm in contact with daily are like that.

[Moshe123]

That applies to chareidim too.

But we're talking about the gedolei yisrael now. Not your random Rabbi.

[Menachem613]

The modx in my family didn't stay at the center.
3/4 of my family are like that. They are all those that became kalye in America.
They come from chassidish Galician families and from very frum Lithuanian families.
Almost all modox that I'm in contact with daily are like that.

Your family should check their Yichus.