Author Topic: How Late is too Late?  (Read 7071 times)

Offline moish

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2010, 10:24:01 PM »
first of all being surrounded by mountains does indeed make shkiya earlier. thus shkia in/around palm springs is earlier. not sure what you were trying to say with regards to yerushalayim though.
im really not sure i understand  what youre not getting. some places get darker faster than others.

Online AsherO

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2010, 11:05:07 PM »
first of all being surrounded by mountains does indeed make shkiya earlier. thus shkia in/around palm springs is earlier. not sure what you were trying to say with regards to yerushalayim though.
im really not sure i understand  what youre not getting. some places get darker faster than others.

Theoretically: If I plant a forest at the edge of my property line (say I have many acres of land) and it gets dark for me sooner (due to those trees that block the sunlight), does my Shkiyah get earlier from a halachic perspective?

Are trees any different than mountains?

I think the times for Shkiya are calculated based on geographic position in relation to the sun, regardless of what one can see due to factors like fog, urbanization, trees, mountains, etc.
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Offline moish

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2010, 11:18:04 PM »
well the fact of the matter is youre wrong. thats why i brought palm springs as an example.
if you dont understand the reason, you might want to speak it over with a competent posek.
unfortunately, halachah is not detrmined by what you "think"

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2010, 11:30:43 PM »
unfortunately, halachah is not detrmined by what you "think"

I wasn't saying it is, I was talking based on my understanding.

I don't need a posek, since I don't have a halachic question. We were having a discussion about how halachic times are calculated and I offered a suggestion. Instead of stating the obvious (that halacha isn't determined by how I think, duh), you're welcome to pose an alternative suggestion. Your Palm Springs example doesn't tell us anything about whether my hypothesis is right or wrong (since we don't know the correct formula for calculating zmanim, or the conditions in Palm Springs such as altitude etc.)
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Offline moish

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2010, 11:47:02 PM »
then you should have said "i would think" or "i would have thought"

Offline Dan

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2010, 12:06:26 AM »
not sure where dan got his zmanim from but what i see is that on nov 7:
Jerusalem- shkia 4:49 tzais 5:22 = 33 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=27526341
Beachwood- shkia 6:15 tzais 6:58 = 43 minutes http://www.myzmanim.com/day.aspx?vars=68833971

it just gets darker faster in yerushalayim. come here and youll see it yourself
Still not half the time.

Here's where I got my numbers, looks like different shitas in tzeis.

Beachwood-35 minutes bh"s: http://www.chabad.org/calendar/zmanim.asp?tDate=11/6/2010&z=44122

J'lem-31 minutes bh"s: http://www.chabad.org/calendar/zmanim.asp?AID=143790&tdate=11/6/2010&c=247&save=1
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Offline Dan

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2010, 12:14:42 AM »
I think Palm Springs is a chiddush.  I don't know of other cities that calculate an offset period.

When the shliach moved there he asked a chabad rav (I think R Marlow or R' Dworkin) what to do as there is a massive mountain range just a mile west of the shul which completely obstructs sunset.

He calculated that they should take in shkia 25 minutes early, but to end the day as regular, so they have the longest bein hashmashos on earth.
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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2010, 01:07:27 AM »
then you should have said "i would think" or "i would have thought"

No, I do think. I may be wrong but you'll have to prove it.
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Offline moish

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2010, 01:19:59 AM »
palm springs

Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 01:49:20 AM »
On another note moish: was the weirdo by you, or it will become night to him forever...

Offline moish

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2010, 02:12:33 AM »
yes he was, shkoyich. btw what makes him weird?

Offline damaxer91

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2010, 03:44:33 AM »
Back to my original question....

Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2010, 03:59:28 AM »
@moish: back to the original question... ;D

Offline Eli

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2010, 09:08:43 AM »
You're flying C or F. You should have no problems. Dealer will be outside your apt waiting for you at 17:50. The car is under his name anyway :)

You didn't mention though...luggage? Wife and *baby?
-Eli

Offline damaxer91

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2010, 12:49:36 PM »
You're flying C or F. You should have no problems. Dealer will be outside your apt waiting for you at 17:50. The car is under his name anyway :)

You didn't mention though...luggage? Wife and *baby?

No Luggage. Wife and Baby are coming. Dealer is a no-go because he holds 72. I think that leaves you as the best option. Can't wait to see you running up those steps from Arzei!

Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2010, 12:56:13 PM »
No Luggage. Wife and Baby are coming. Dealer is a no-go because he holds 72. I think that leaves you as the best option. Can't wait to see you running up those steps from Arzei!

Okay, here is how it works.

For the beginning of the way, you drive, and after 72 Dealer takes over.

You put your baby in the carry on.


I traveled already with 2 kids from TLV with checked in luggage, and arrived-by-the-lady-that-asks-all-the-questions 47 mins to the flight.

sweating like a chozer, and went into the lounge to grab a few diet grapefruit juices. and made it to the flight (LX).

I was sweating so profusely that I guess it would count a s a shower...




Offline Eli

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Re: How Late is too Late?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2010, 04:15:58 PM »
No Luggage. Wife and Baby are coming. Dealer is a no-go because he holds 72. I think that leaves you as the best option. Can't wait to see you running up those steps from Arzei!
I'll do it at 35...we'll see..
-Eli