Author Topic: MH370 Shabbos Story Discussion (Read 75621 times)

Chaikel · « **Reply #220 on:** March 13, 2014, 04:56:32 AM »

Quote from: Baruch on March 12, 2014, 09:18:12 PM

Those that really really don't believe in Hashgacha Pratis wouldn't care about this story, those that don't want to believe in Hashgacha Pratis hate this story.

+1000

Biggest proof is how positive the non-Jewish response is, and how all the negative response is coming from non-frum and MO

yare · « **Reply #221 on:** March 13, 2014, 05:26:33 AM »

Quote from: CS1 on March 13, 2014, 12:10:06 AM

IMO, if you believe that, then one is limiting Hashem and His abilities.

His love is so deep for each person that He is fully aware of all destinies and all our potential and power that exists within us to change ours for the better.

he was quoting a ramban. your opinion is less than meaningless on the matter.

HP58 · « **Reply #222 on:** March 13, 2014, 05:40:46 AM »

Quote from: yare on March 13, 2014, 05:26:33 AM

he was quoting a ramban. your opinion is less than meaningless on the matter.

+100.
Couldn't have said that better myself.

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #223 on:** March 13, 2014, 07:57:40 AM »

I don't get it, even if the guy would have been saved because he was stuck in traffic that would still make for an amazing story (and for Frum Yidden, an amazing case of HP), why does it become less amazing (and more offensive) just because shabbos is involved? If you don't believe in HP or in the power of shabbos then focus on the main part of the story, someone narrowly escaped being on that ill fated flight.

jj1000 · « **Reply #224 on:** March 13, 2014, 08:11:46 AM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on March 13, 2014, 07:57:40 AM

I don't get it, even if the guy would have been saved because he was stuck in traffic that would still make for an amazing story (and for Frum Yidden, an amazing case of HP), why does it become less amazing (and more offensive) just because shabbos is involved? If you don't believe in HP or in the power of shabbos then focus on the main part of the story, someone narrowly escaped being on that ill fated flight.

I think people are missing 1. That we bless hashem for the good and the bad. (We happen to enjoy a story with open good more) and 2. HP also applies to someone doing an aveira. Saying someone is saved while eatingpork ddoesn't negate anything. They take HP halfway, rationalize it to their logic and then dismiss it because they found a flaw. But they never understood it in the first place.

The other major problem is people putting in their own interpretations to something that Dan never said.

CountValentine · « **Reply #225 on:** March 13, 2014, 08:13:39 AM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on March 13, 2014, 07:57:40 AM

I don't get it, even if the guy would have been saved because he was stuck in traffic that would still make for an amazing story (and for Frum Yidden, an amazing case of HP), why does it become less amazing (and more offensive) just because shabbos is involved? If you don't believe in HP or in the power of shabbos then focus on the main part of the story, someone narrowly escaped being on that ill fated flight.

The offense part is for the religious individuals that believe it was just one of those things we are somehow cast as not believing in G-d.

Bostener · « **Reply #226 on:** March 13, 2014, 08:25:34 AM »

Quote from: Dan on March 12, 2014, 09:13:02 PM

I can't understand a word I'm saying. The audio quality is terrible.

After listening to your interview on KM I listened to a TR to Iran, yes they say they go every Shishen Purim to the Tzion of Mordeche and Esther. But that interview is by far more unclear then then yours but if you pay close attention you could understand it.

DovDov · « **Reply #227 on:** March 13, 2014, 09:25:22 AM »

Quote from: rots5 on March 13, 2014, 04:23:28 AM

Who is eliyahu fink who also wrote against you? Is he the assistant rabbi in New Rochelle?

Fink is the rabbi in the Venice Beach shul. He is a standard fare orthodox apologist disguised as a "Rabbi". Just look at any of his posts and you will see for yourself.

I highly doubt he believes in god, but thats just my opinion, you can judge for yourself. It may just be a need for attention.

Aaaron · « **Reply #228 on:** March 13, 2014, 10:37:27 AM »

Quote from: DovDov on March 13, 2014, 09:25:22 AM

Fink is the rabbi in the Venice Beach shul. He is a standard fare orthodox apologist disguised as a "Rabbi". Just look at any of his posts and you will see for yourself.

I highly doubt he believes in god, but thats just my opinion, you can judge for yourself. It may just be a need for attention.

I told someone recently that I would bet A LOT of money that he's Orthoprax.

Baruch · « **Reply #229 on:** March 13, 2014, 10:37:56 AM »

Quote from: aygart on March 12, 2014, 10:59:57 PM

I always wondered if a gentile does a Christian or Moslem ritual that doesn't bother anyone else but he did it to serve G-d why shouldn't he be rewarded for it even according to judaism. According to most Rishonim we believe in the same G-d.

Moslems according to all Rishonim is the same g-d. Christians is according to some rishnim not Avodah Zarah for gentiles - which does not mean it's the same g-d, it means that shituf is not from the Noahide laws.

aygart · « **Reply #230 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:13:38 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on March 13, 2014, 10:37:56 AM

Moslems according to all Rishonim is the same g-d. Christians is according to some rishnim not Avodah Zarah for gentiles - which does not mean it's the same g-d, it means that shituf is not from the Noahide laws.

I understand that, but the commandments would not be from the added ones IIUC.

chaimmayer · « **Reply #231 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:28:45 PM »

Fink's father is the principal of ateres bais yaakov in monsey. He was definitely brought up pretty frum but some of his posts....

Dan · « **Reply #232 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:36:50 PM »

His whole premise is ridiculous.

Like I wrote on his FB post https://www.facebook.com/eliyahu.fink/posts/10102202420967555

"Let's ignore the God aspect for 1 minute. I'm not his spokesman and have no idea what his reasons are for causing pain and suffering.

A travel agent put faith over profit. An irreligious businessman was impressed by that and changed his itinerary. He is alive today because of that. End of story.

Take whatever you want from the story. I outlined my implicit points in the update and you've taken things out of context.

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #233 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:48:16 PM »

I gave my short 2 cent their as well. HAARETS of all places to preach anything remotely connected to Judaism....
What a joke.

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #234 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:51:31 PM »

Guys, like the right posts if you have a minute.

DovDov · « **Reply #235 on:** March 13, 2014, 12:56:36 PM »

Quote from: Dan on March 13, 2014, 12:36:50 PM

His whole premise is ridiculous.

Like I wrote on his FB post https://www.facebook.com/eliyahu.fink/posts/10102202420967555

"Let's ignore the God aspect for 1 minute. I'm not his spokesman and have no idea what his reasons are for causing pain and suffering.

A travel agent put faith over profit. An irreligious businessman was impressed by that and changed his itinerary. He is alive today because of that. End of story.

Take whatever you want from the story. I outlined my implicit points in the update and you've taken things out of context.

You're absolutely correct....

If some guy were to decide to stay home an extra day so he can watch his son's soccer game, that would be a great story because he did a morally good thing and it saved his life, and no one would consider it offensive.

The reason why all these apologists are up in arms is because religion is involved.

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #236 on:** March 13, 2014, 01:06:05 PM »

Thanks dov for the like

Dan · « **Reply #237 on:** March 13, 2014, 01:13:39 PM »

Quote from: DovDov on March 13, 2014, 12:56:36 PM

You're absolutely correct....

If some guy were to decide to stay home an extra day so he can watch his son's soccer game, that would be a great story because he did a morally good thing and it saved his life, and no one would consider it offensive.

The reason why all these apologists are up in arms is because religion is involved.

Write that on his FB page.

judahk88 · « **Reply #238 on:** March 13, 2014, 01:14:19 PM »

Quote from: Dan on March 13, 2014, 01:13:39 PM

Write that on his FB page.

+100. Would love to see what he has to say to that.

SuperFlyer · « **Reply #239 on:** March 13, 2014, 01:18:58 PM »

Problem with this idiot is that he seems to have more spare time than all of us combined....

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Author Topic: MH370 Shabbos Story Discussion (Read 75621 times)