MH370 Shabbos Story Discussion

[Moshe123]

I love it. If someone doesn't agree with your world view, they're negative.

And more importantly, they're simply wrong.

To me that's egocentricity and hubris.

Judaism isn't a "World view".

[jj1000]

I love it. If someone doesn't agree with your world view, they're negative.

And more importantly, they're simply wrong.

To me that's egocentricity and hubris.

Moshe123 will say the same about your views on him.

But in that case you think YOU are right...

There are many fine lines here.

[AJK]

Except I haven't espoused any view. The entire time, all I've done is preach viewing things from others' perspective.

All I hear in response is, but wait, Judaism says this!

ETA: See? --

Judaism isn't a "World view".

[AJK]

CHAS VESHALOM!!! 

Then it's even worse, you're being hypocritical.

[Aaaron]

Except I haven't espoused any view. The entire time, all I've done is preach viewing things from others' perspective.

All I hear in response is, but wait, Judaism says this!

ETA: See? --

OJ preaches elitism, egocentrism, xenophobia, etc.  Some take it more to heart than others.

[jj1000]

Except I haven't espoused any view. The entire time, all I've done is preach viewing things from others' perspective.

All I hear in response is, but wait, Judaism says this!

ETA: See? --

What I'm saying is he feels you shouldn't be open minded and that's his view, so you saying be open minded is in direct contradiction to his views. You disagree at a core element of philosophy and therefore you are somewhat contradicting your open minded view by saying you must be open minded, that is in fact rather close minded in this case.

Make sense or is the fast getting to me?

Then it's even worse, you're being hypocritical.

His views don't need to follow your logic they are his views. The problem with modox and chabad people have are far removed and not mutually exclusive.

[Achas Veachas]

What I'm saying is he feels you shouldn't be open minded and that's his view, so you saying be open minded is in direct contradiction to his views. You disagree at a core element of philosophy and therefore you are somewhat contradicting your open minded view by saying you must be open minded, that is in fact rather close minded in this case.

Make sense or is the fast getting to me?
 His views don't need to follow your logic they are his views. The problem with modox and chabad people have are far removed and not mutually exclusive.

Somehow I'm being reminded of this...

[AJK]

What I'm saying is he feels you shouldn't be open minded and that's his view, so you saying be open minded is in direct contradiction to his views. You disagree at a core element of philosophy and therefore you are somewhat contradicting your open minded view by saying you must be open minded, that is in fact rather close minded in this case.

Make sense or is the fast getting to me?

I understand what you're saying. Kind of tortured, though, to say that my suggestion at being more open minded, (perhaps by stepping into the shoes of the victims' families--like I've said ad neausem), is in fact being closed-minded and forcing my views upon others.

Perhaps I'm the one the fast is getting to. But then I look back and see quotes like "Modox" Rabbis deserve to be disrespected, mocked, and disparaged.

[Dan]

But then I look back and see quotes like "Modox" Rabbis deserve to be disrespected, mocked, and disparaged.

On a fast day no less

Why the need to mock other jews?  What was wrong with Aharon Hakohen's approach?

[AJK]

His views don't need to follow your logic they are his views. The problem with modox and chabad people have are far removed and not mutually exclusive.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but he based the correctness of his utterly disrespectful comments on the purported fact of "hemishe gedolim" also mock and disparage Modern Orthodox Judaism.

Well, at least one such heimishe gadol did something similar with respect to Chabad. So I don't think that's quite that far a logical leap to say that would follow a similar lead.

[AJK]

I feel like I need to clarify.

I personally thought the story was inspiring, beautiful, and uplifting. I personally believe that Hashem has "his hand" in everything, large and small. I personally don't have any ill-will towards Dan for posting it, and would probably have done the same.

However, absolutely none of that forecloses my position that some people on DDF and FB are mind-numbingly close-minded and egocentrists. And some are downright disrespectful. The end.

[jj1000]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but he based the correctness of his utterly disrespectful comments on the purported fact of "hemishe gedolim" also mock and disparage Modern Orthodox Judaism.

Well, at least one such heimishe gadol did something similar with respect to Chabad. So I don't think that's quite that far a logical leap to say that would follow a similar lead.

He's not following all heimeshe gadolim, just certain ones.

[Moshe123]

He's not following all heimeshe gadolim, just certain ones.

It's one thing when most gedolim say something and it's another when one or 2 do and the others don't.
In my book Rav Shach and the Rebbe are equal gedolim.

[rots5]

Ajk I don't know if this is on topic or not. But I will write a small piece on this person you seem so into 'rabbi' fink.

Rabbi fink has smicha. Well from where? He is a rabbi of where? Venice beach? Oh ok.... Did you ever meet him?

So why would someone who knows nothing about dan or the story make such allegations against him? Dan and the TA did nothing wrong. They didn't do anything wrong not according to the Torah and not according to the secular law. I am VERY liberal in my views and I try to stay opened minded. This rabbi is no MO rabbi he is an abomination to the word Rabbi.

Did you ever hear a rabbi get up in any shul and start bashing someone they've never met for something they've never done?? Its not like there is an accusation out against this TA for stealing or for doing something immorale. I understand if there was and then I can maybe hear why a rabbi would come out. But this??? This??? This is what you call a rabbi?? Someone who out rights is happy and proud to work for a paper who is anti-frum, anti-shomer shabbos?

A fellow brother THAT YOUVE MET and KNOW is getting beat up by someone who has 30k twitter followers and youve never met him, he deserves respect??

I never heard a hiemashe gadol do anything close to this?! When stark was killed some of the Jewish community was up in arms for the post did. (I was not one of them, if a person did something wrong then so be it, but I don't think I'll see any rabbis get up this shabb and rip apart dan or the TA or the Jewish community for believing that shabbos saved him)

I am trying to write coherent. If it doesn't fully make sense pls forgive me (typing from my phone)

[AJK]

Ajk I don't know if this is on topic or not. But I will write a small piece on this person you seem so into 'rabbi' fink.

Rabbi fink has smicha. Well from where? He is a rabbi of where? Venice beach? Oh ok.... Did you ever meet him?

So why would someone who knows nothing about dan or the story make such allegations against him? Dan and the TA did nothing wrong. They didn't do anything wrong not according to the Torah and not according to the secular law. I am VERY liberal in my views and I try to stay opened minded. This rabbi is no MO rabbi he is an abomination to the word Rabbi.

Did you ever hear a rabbi get up in any shul and start bashing someone they've never met for something they've never done?? Its not like there is an accusation out against this TA for stealing or for doing something immorale. I understand if there was and then I can maybe hear why a rabbi would come out. But this??? This??? This is what you call a rabbi?? Someone who out rights is happy and proud to work for a paper who is anti-frum, anti-shomer shabbos?

A fellow brother THAT YOUVE MET and KNOW is getting beat up by someone who has 30k twitter followers and youve never met him, he deserves respect??

I never heard a hiemashe gadol do anything close to this?! When stark was killed some of the Jewish community was up in arms for the post did. (I was not one of them, if a person did something wrong then so be it, but I don't think I'll see any rabbis get up this shabb and rip apart dan or the TA or the Jewish community for believing that shabbos saved him)

I am trying to write coherent. If it doesn't fully make sense pls forgive me (typing from my phone)

If you're waiting for a point-by-point response from me, don't. I'm not going to respond to what is, to me, incoherent, disrespectful, and histrionic.

I will say, however, that if you think I have "chosen" Rabbi Fink over Dan, you need to go back and reread my posts.

[sky121]

What I'm saying is he feels you shouldn't be open minded and that's his view, so you saying be open minded is in direct contradiction to his views. You disagree at a core element of philosophy and therefore you are somewhat contradicting your open minded view by saying you must be open minded, that is in fact rather close minded in this case.

Make sense or is the fast getting to me?
 His views don't need to follow your logic they are his views. The problem with modox and chabad people have are far removed and not mutually exclusive.

It does make sense but whether he chooses to be open minded or not, can't a person emotionally understand and appreciate where a person might be coming from even while disagreeing?
I'm not speaking of this one Rabbi specifically even but just all the negative posts and feelings in general.

[rots5]

I'm not going to respond to what is, to me, incoherent, disrespectful, and histrionic.

I will say, however, that if you think I have "chosen" Rabbi Fink over Dan, you need to go back and reread my posts.

@ajk i have not, i am explaining to you why a person like that doesnt deserve the rabbi's respect you think he deserves.

(i know this might sound wrong and maybe hypocritical, but i am not really arguing with you, you merely happen to be the person i am responding to. I promise this should not be taken be personal. I know it sounds like my comment is directed to you only, but its ore for the fact that i am very bothered that a person who calls himself a rabbi needs to be respected as one)
 

[jj1000]

It does make sense but whether he chooses to be open minded or not, can't a person emotionally understand and appreciate where a person might be coming from even while disagreeing?

I would hope so. But as Godwin's Law goes a Nazi thinks that killing Jews was the RIGHT thing to do, my argument will apply to that as well. If you say be open minded than maybe be open to being that closed... If Moshe thinks he has to hate than that is what he's displaying.

Sad really.

[rots5]

If you're waiting for a point-by-point response from me, don't. I'm not going to respond to what is, to me, incoherent, disrespectful, and histrionic.

I will say, however, that if you think I have "chosen" Rabbi Fink over Dan, you need to go back and reread my posts.

I am not waiting for anything from you! I am talking to you, but its really meant as my mind on the current situation.

[sky121]

I would hope so. But as Godwin's Law goes a Nazi thinks that killing Jews was the RIGHT thing to do, my argument will apply to that as well. If you say be open minded than maybe be open to being that closed... If Moshe thinks he has to hate than that is what he's displaying.

Sad really.

And can you not in some way at least appreciate the fact that that's how these Nazis were brainwashed and taught?  And that's an extreme example even.

And I think most of us are open minded enough to not be too shocked from Moshes words and thoughts.  While I may disagree I can understand how he probably grew up and what's been drilled into his head from a young age and still today.