Author Topic: MH370 Shabbos Story Discussion (Read 75976 times)

AJK · « **Reply #40 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:44:31 AM »

The fact of the matter is it is a beautiful story of a person who (for whatever reason) decided to not fly on Shabbas and his life was therefore spared.

But the further fact of the matter is that every story has another angle, and for those persons of a different (or non-faith), this story rings like a snake oil salesman trying to sell goods which any objective person would dismiss out of hand. I get it, I do.

I mean, for every story of a Jew being saved by Shabbas, there is another story of a Jew dying "as a result" of Shabbas. Also, and perhaps more troubling, is that (again) to people of different or non-faith may understandably infer from such a story that Gd does not value the lives of non-Jews to the same degree as Jews because they do not have the Sabbath to save them.

It fosters an elitist stereotype that simply cannot be good for am yisrael. (I am personally of the opinion that this post should not have been made for similar reasons.)

Just because something can be said, does not mean it should be said.

However, that said, bottom line, as I learned long ago, you simply cannot please everyone.

etech0 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:47:41 AM »

I think that it's just hard to make someone appreciate a story in a vacuum. When a person has enough hashkafic background they can appreciate a story for what it says, without drawing conclusions from what's not said.
Not that I'm opposed to posting stories like this, and I think it was mechazek a lot of ppl in hashgacha pratis and in why we have to try to help other people even if we don't think anything will come out of it. But I understand the pesach for ppl to get upset.

CS1 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:49:01 AM »

Unfortunately, the plane was destined to disappear.
We do not know why or what G-d’s plan is.
However, though teshuva, Tefila, and tzedakah, we can erase/change own personal gezeirah/destiny.
The overall destiny happened, tragically; however this man, through keeping Shabbos, was able to change his.

Super Speed · « **Reply #43 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:53:46 AM »

Quote from: MC on March 10, 2014, 11:21:21 PM

If you're referencing what I think you're referencing (inyan tefillin), the mitzvah is not to understand the reason but to understand that there IS a reason.

A real Talmidah Chachamah!

SamKey · « **Reply #44 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:54:49 AM »

HELP I feel like I'm reading those comments on the daily news this is damaging to even read this crap
P.S. Disclaimer I'm talking to myself and not preaching

MC · « **Reply #45 on:** March 11, 2014, 01:31:26 AM »

Quote from: SamKey on March 11, 2014, 12:54:49 AM

P.S. Disclaimer I'm talking to myself and not preaching

Exactly the reason I took myself out of the convo. Let the preachers do the preaching. If I need a boost I'd rather get it from a rav I know than some unknowns on the forums.

yitzf · « **Reply #46 on:** March 11, 2014, 02:50:51 AM »

http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/41764#comment-571433

LOL

CountValentine · « **Reply #47 on:** March 11, 2014, 07:40:36 AM »

Quote from: AJK on March 11, 2014, 12:44:31 AM

The fact of the matter is it is a beautiful story of a person who (for whatever reason) decided to not fly on Shabbas and his life was therefore spared.

But the further fact of the matter is that every story has another angle, and for those persons of a different (or non-faith), this story rings like a snake oil salesman trying to sell goods which any objective person would dismiss out of hand. I get it, I do.

I mean, for every story of a Jew being saved by Shabbas, there is another story of a Jew dying "as a result" of Shabbas. Also, and perhaps more troubling, is that (again) to people of different or non-faith may understandably infer from such a story that Gd does not value the lives of non-Jews to the same degree as Jews because they do not have the Sabbath to save them.

Well said.

wayfe · « **Reply #48 on:** March 11, 2014, 09:08:03 AM »

How about we rephrase it to say "might it not be that he was saved because of the merit of Shabbos?" Does that make it better? I personally don't see what's wrong with the story. The story is about one individual, not about all the others on the plane. Nor does it reflect on any of the other tzaros the world has seen since it's creation. It's not an explanation of all of G-d's workings. We are not gloating about the misfortune of others... we rejoice with the every individual who was saved and mourn those we lost.

dirah · « **Reply #49 on:** March 11, 2014, 09:28:57 AM »

Quote from: yitzf on March 11, 2014, 02:50:51 AM

http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/41764#comment-571433
LOL

Many years ago I had a direct experience with some angels. Mesh was present and experienced what I experienced. Hard to argue with.

yoshi · « **Reply #50 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:07:49 AM »

NaH Says:
256

March 11th, 2014 at 9:02 am

The man may not have flown on Shabbos, but you can rest assured he didn’t keep that shabbos (as a person who would regularly fly on shabbos). He likely didn’t eat kosher either that Shabbos (Malaysia is a Muslim country). That is a lot of reward from god for just not flying on Shabbat. Do the people who posting this all over even realize how absurd it is to claim this as being saves by (keeping) Shabbat!

Saw this on the main site this morning....it seems people need a little bit of הדרכה...and maybe a different חינוך

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #51 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:09:48 AM »

Quote from: yoshi on March 11, 2014, 10:07:49 AM

NaH Says:
256

March 11th, 2014 at 9:02 am

The man may not have flown on Shabbos, but you can rest assured he didn’t keep that shabbos (as a person who would regularly fly on shabbos). He likely didn’t eat kosher either that Shabbos (Malaysia is a Muslim country). That is a lot of reward from god for just not flying on Shabbat. Do the people who posting this all over even realize how absurd it is to claim this as being saves by (keeping) Shabbat!

Saw this on the main site this morning....it seems people need a little bit of הדרכה...and maybe a different חינוך

Did the guy read the story? The man flew on Friday and spent Shabbos at Chabad in Beijing...
Besides being Mechallel Shabbos in your hotel room is different than being Mechallel it Befarhesya by flying...

moish · « **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:14:31 AM »

Quote from: yoshi on March 11, 2014, 10:07:49 AM

NaH Says:
256

March 11th, 2014 at 9:02 am

The man may not have flown on Shabbos, but you can rest assured he didn’t keep that shabbos (as a person who would regularly fly on shabbos). He likely didn’t eat kosher either that Shabbos (Malaysia is a Muslim country). That is a lot of reward from god for just not flying on Shabbat. Do the people who posting this all over even realize how absurd it is to claim this as being saves by (keeping) Shabbat!

Saw this on the main site this morning....it seems people need a little bit of הדרכה...and maybe a different חינוך

just because you disagree doesnt mean he should change his hadrachah and chinuch. thats very self centered. he brought up a very valid point

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:16:45 AM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on March 11, 2014, 10:09:48 AM

Did the guy read the story? The man flew on Friday and spent Shabbos at Chabad in Beijing...
Besides being Mechallel Shabbos in your hotel room is different than being Mechallel it Befarhesya by flying...

Story does not say that.

yoshi · « **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:17:18 AM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on March 11, 2014, 10:09:48 AM

Did the guy read the story? The man flew on Friday and spent Shabbos at Chabad in Beijing...
Besides being Mechallel Shabbos in your hotel room is different than being Mechallel it Befarhesya by flying...

He's missing the point! Here you have a non frum Jew who decided to not fly on shabbos because it was shabbos. And he has the chutzpah to say that it had nothing to do with shabbos, and he was saved only because g-d had rachmonus, since he has no zechusim because he eats treif?! Who is he to talk like that?!

Super Speed · « **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:28:57 AM »

Quote from: yoshi on March 11, 2014, 10:17:18 AM

He's missing the point! Here you have a non frum Jew who decided to not fly on shabbos because it was shabbos. And he has the chutzpah to say that it had nothing to do with shabbos, and he was saved only because g-d had rachmonus, since he has no zechusim because he eats treif?! Who is he to talk like that?!

+10

DBK · « **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:30:12 AM »

Quote from: wayfe on March 11, 2014, 09:08:03 AM

How about we rephrase it to say "might it not be that he was saved because of the merit of Shabbos?" Does that make it better? I personally don't see what's wrong with the story. The story is about one individual, not about all the others on the plane. Nor does it reflect on any of the other tzaros the world has seen since it's creation. It's not an explanation of all of G-d's workings. We are not gloating about the misfortune of others... we rejoice with the every individual who was saved and mourn those we lost.

I agree. Well said.

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2014, 10:56:14 AM »

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on March 11, 2014, 10:16:45 AM

Story does not say that.

It does say that he was looking for somewhere to celebrate Shabbos and the travel agent recommended Chabad...

sguitarist18 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2014, 11:11:43 AM »

Quote from: moish on March 11, 2014, 10:14:31 AM

just because you disagree doesnt mean he should change his hadrachah and chinuch. thats very self centered. he brought up a very valid point

I disagree. While it is possible that he didn't fully keep shabbos, he did make an effort to not be mechalel shabbos in this particular area. And keeping shabbos, even for just a few minutes, is a tremendously powerful act. If someone doesn't believe that, then they need to examine what exactly their belief system is.

yoshi · « **Reply #59 on:** March 11, 2014, 11:38:09 AM »

Quote from: moish on March 11, 2014, 10:14:31 AM

just because you disagree doesnt mean he should change his hadrachah and chinuch. thats very self centered. he brought up a very valid point

-10000000000000

What exactly was his VALID point?!

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Author Topic: MH370 Shabbos Story Discussion (Read 75976 times)