Author Topic: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?  (Read 93402 times)

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #280 on: February 17, 2017, 09:57:58 AM »
Whenever a tenant whose original term of leasing shall be for a period of one month or longer shall hold over or remain in possession of the demised premises beyond the term of the letting, the tenancy created by or resulting from acceptance of rent by the landlord shall be a tenancy from month to month N.J.S.A. 46:8-10

In Green v. Verma court ruled that the the clause landlord inserted was ok. But they were lawyers. (and roughed up the landlord in court).

in Gamble v. Connolly tenants were able to argue that the lease provision is an unconscionable “term of adhesion,”. I would argue the same.
Wow! Great info!
So the tenant is free to leave.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #281 on: February 17, 2017, 10:05:26 AM »
Wow! Great info!
So the tenant is free to leave.
No!
The law is only if there is no agreement to the contrary.

Question is if the agreement is valid or not.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #282 on: February 17, 2017, 10:06:44 AM »
No!
The law is only if there is no agreement to the contrary.

Question is if the agreement is valid or not.
Got it.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #283 on: February 17, 2017, 11:46:51 AM »
in Gamble v. Connolly tenants were able to argue that the lease provision is an unconscionable “term of adhesion,”. I would argue the same.
I am not a lawyer, but I've heard of "contract of adhesion", not of "term of adhesion".

From my personal experience, leases are almost always negotiable, with language added or crossed out from the standard form. Wouldn't that negate the "term of adhesion" argument?

In my responses above, I wasn't arguing law, I am not qualified for that (despite some very limited knowledge in certain areas), I was suggesting real life practical approaches. The fact that you are bringing a legal argument against the contract, just strengthens my PRACTICAL approach. Since the landlord won't win by default in court, he has to weigh his options before pursuing that route. Many times they will just move on.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Online bubkiz

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #284 on: February 17, 2017, 12:04:25 PM »
I am not a lawyer, but I've heard of "contract of adhesion", not of "term of adhesion".

From my personal experience, leases are almost always negotiable, with language added or crossed out from the standard form. Wouldn't that negate the "term of adhesion" argument?

In my responses above, I wasn't arguing law, I am not qualified for that (despite some very limited knowledge in certain areas), I was suggesting real life practical approaches. The fact that you are bringing a legal argument against the contract, just strengthens my PRACTICAL approach. Since the landlord won't win by default in court, he has to weigh his options before pursuing that route. Many times they will just move on.
+1
Keep in mind that the tenants are usually viewed as the underdog against the "greedy" landlord which makes it much harder to litigate for the landlords.

I had a somewhat similar situation when I was a tenant and even though the landlord may have won in court, they moved on. The cost of serving papers, having a lawyer represent them, the possibility of the case getting pushed off, etc. will usually deter legal action unless there is a large amount at stake or they want to make a korbon out of you.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #285 on: February 17, 2017, 02:37:35 PM »
Yeah, but how about reports on credit report? Do they need a court judgment for that, or can they just file 30/90 day late ?

Also, are these simple to remove?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #286 on: February 17, 2017, 03:13:05 PM »
Yeah, but how about reports on credit report? Do they need a court judgment for that, or can they just file 30/90 day late ?

Also, are these simple to remove?
I would guess that unless they are a professional landlord, they wouldn't even go that route.

If it reaches credit report, you can probably fight. Request validation, etc. etc.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #287 on: February 17, 2017, 03:15:19 PM »
I would guess that unless they are a professional landlord, they wouldn't even go that route.

If it reaches credit report, you can probably fight. Request validation, etc. etc.
They are professional. But the risk of a judge invalidating this nasty clause will ruin their contract for hundreds of units.

They may not want to take that risk...

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #288 on: February 17, 2017, 03:16:20 PM »
I would guess that unless they are a professional landlord, they wouldn't even go that route.

If it reaches credit report, you can probably fight. Request validation, etc. etc.
Wouldn't it reach the credit report fast? Will the put collection people to chase the tenant? Can they without a court order?

Offline henche

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #289 on: February 17, 2017, 03:47:33 PM »
I am not a lawyer, but I've heard of "contract of adhesion", not of "term of adhesion".

From my personal experience, leases are almost always negotiable, with language added or crossed out from the standard form. Wouldn't that negate the "term of adhesion" argument?


In my personal experience, leases are never negotiable.



Offline ExGingi

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #290 on: February 18, 2017, 09:15:01 PM »
In my personal experience, leases are never negotiable.
-1

I have negotiated leases.

Obviously if it's an owner's market, owners won't bother negotiating, as they can easily find someone else. However, in such a scenario, how likely are they to spend resources pursuing a tenant for early termination? They might even be happy, as they can get a new tenant at more favorable terms.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2017, 09:43:53 PM »
Would attorneys be interested in handling this on contingency?
When tenant wins, they will collect the fees from the wealthy and oppressive landlord.
Should be a pretty easy case. Matter of drafting a couple of letters. I can't imagine landlord wants to risk a judge invalidating the clause. - would be a major hit to business model.

 

Offline thaber

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2017, 11:27:27 PM »
As someone on the other side of the table, I'm struggling to understand how any landlord anywhere can unilaterally renew for a year. He can change terms, but can't extend a contract. what happens after the expiration of the lease is explicated in the actual lease in every lease I've ever seen. Perhaps automatic yearly renewals are there?
As an aside, it's not difficult to get a judgment, and it's really not difficult to report to credit/ collections, many services do it for you for a nominal fee.

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #293 on: March 21, 2017, 08:08:09 PM »
Any real estate lawyers here I can pm a question to?
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

Chuck Norris...
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Offline good sam

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #294 on: March 26, 2017, 01:51:22 PM »
Any real estate lawyers here I can pm a question to?
Yup
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #295 on: March 26, 2017, 04:14:46 PM »
Yup
Thanks,but too late. Got question answered.
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

Chuck Norris...
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Offline elit

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #296 on: May 03, 2017, 12:57:01 PM »
I am not sure if this is the right thread but.... I am trying to figure out how to figure out zoning rules for a shul in a specific part of Nassau County, I cant find anything that I understand online.  Is that a real estate lawyer question? Does anyone here have knowledge or know how to find that info out? Thanks!

Offline Am

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #297 on: May 03, 2017, 01:05:08 PM »
I am not sure if this is the right thread but.... I am trying to figure out how to figure out zoning rules for a shul in a specific part of Nassau County, I cant find anything that I understand online.  Is that a real estate lawyer question? Does anyone here have knowledge or know how to find that info out? Thanks!
Land use attorney. You can also ask your engineer.

Offline elit

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #298 on: May 03, 2017, 01:12:18 PM »
Land use attorney. You can also ask your engineer.
didn't know there is such a thing. Any land use attorneys on here?

Offline Am

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #299 on: May 03, 2017, 06:59:37 PM »
didn't know there is such a thing. Any land use attorneys on here?
If you didn't need a land use attorney for the job then ask the engineer. If it's a simple answer, he'll just answer. Otherwise, Zoning due diligence is one of the services that Civil engineers do.