Author Topic: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?  (Read 43807 times)

Offline Zevi16

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #240 on: July 25, 2016, 12:34:44 PM »
You can write it yourself, if you know what you want it to say. 

If you download a form for 20 bucks, that may help give you ideas on what sorts of things you want to discuss in the contract.  But downloading and signing one without reading it and deciding if you want those things, seems a lot less logical then just agreeing with the other side on what you can think of and writing it in plain english.

e.g. A contract to sell arba minim, written by a layperson:
Contract to sell arba minim
Henche will sell Dan's arba minim.  Dan will supply arba minim for sale, and henche will sell and will receive a 10% commission on all sales.  If any are left, henche may return them for full credit. Henche has full discretion on setting price, so long as it is at least 1% above Dan's price.  If henche or Dan wish to cancel, they may on 1 day's notice. Henche may not sell for anyone else this year, even if he cancels this deal. However, if Dan cancels, then henche may sell for someone else.

See, the contract above is probably binding in any state. It has bilateral consideration (henche is giving up right to sell for anyone else, Dan is agreeing to let henche sell for at least 1 day.).  And anyone could have written it, as long as they thought of what they want the deal to be.
Wow thank you. I'm going to look it through and try put it in context.
By the way, is there any way I can get the contract sent to someone and if they send it back it means they agree to it? Because between me and you, the people we deal with won't know how/won't be bothered signing it.

Offline henche

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #241 on: July 25, 2016, 12:39:37 PM »
Wow thank you. I'm going to look it through and try put it in context.
By the way, is there any way I can get the contract sent to someone and if they send it back it means they agree to it? Because between me and you, the people we deal with won't know how/won't be bothered signing it.

I dunno. that's someething you'd definitly want to consult a lawyer.

Offline good sam

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #242 on: July 25, 2016, 12:43:47 PM »
You can write it yourself, if you know what you want it to say. 

If you download a form for 20 bucks, that may help give you ideas on what sorts of things you want to discuss in the contract.  But downloading and signing one without reading it and deciding if you want those things, seems a lot less logical then just agreeing with the other side on what you can think of and writing it in plain english.

e.g. A contract to sell arba minim, written by a layperson:
Contract to sell arba minim
Henche will sell Dan's arba minim.  Dan will supply arba minim for sale, and henche will sell and will receive a 10% commission on all sales.  If any are left, henche may return them for full credit. Henche has full discretion on setting price, so long as it is at least 1% above Dan's price.  If henche or Dan wish to cancel, they may on 1 day's notice. Henche may not sell for anyone else this year, even if he cancels this deal. However, if Dan cancels, then henche may sell for someone else.

See, the contract above is probably binding in any state. It has bilateral consideration (henche is giving up right to sell for anyone else, Dan is agreeing to let henche sell for at least 1 day.).  And anyone could have written it, as long as they thought of what they want the deal to be.

Disagree. This sort of contract will state what the basic agreement is, but often will omit necessary terms, and contingencies in the event things don't go as planned.

1. How much does he have to supply?
2. What quality?
3. What if the goods are less than the agreed upon quality? What if they aren't kosher at all?
4. What if the supply isn't enough? Can henche buy from someone else?
5. By when must the goods be delivered? What if they aren't delivered on time?
6. What if they are damaged in shipping? Who bears the risk?
7. What are henche's remedies if Dan doesn't deliver, or delivers fewer than agreed, or lesser quality?
8. What are Dan's remedies if Henche supplements from another supplier?
9. Is payment due on order, delivery, or sale to consumer?
10. How does Henche collect his commission?
11. What sort of accounting must Henche supply to Dan? How frequent? How detailed?
12. How much effort must Henche exert to sell the goods? If he doesn't market them in good faith, can he still get a refund for the unsold quantities?
13. If there's a dispute, can one party bring the other to court, or must they go to beis din?
14. Is the contract governed by civil law or Jewish law?
15. If there are any left erev yt, can Henche sell for less than cost? Is he required to? Does he get any commission from those sales?

I can go on...
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline henche

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #243 on: July 25, 2016, 12:48:16 PM »
Disagree. This sort of contract will state what the basic agreement is, but often will omit necessary terms, and contingencies in the event things don't go as planned.

1. How much does he have to supply?
2. What quality?
3. What if the goods are less than the agreed upon quality? What if they aren't kosher at all?
4. What if the supply isn't enough? Can henche buy from someone else?
5. By when must the goods be delivered? What if they aren't delivered on time?
6. What if they are damaged in shipping? Who bears the risk?
7. What are henche's remedies if Dan doesn't deliver, or delivers fewer than agreed, or lesser quality?
8. What are Dan's remedies if Henche supplements from another supplier?
9. Is payment due on order, delivery, or sale to consumer?
10. How does Henche collect his commission?
11. What sort of accounting must Henche supply to Dan? How frequent? How detailed?
12. How much effort must Henche exert to sell the goods? If he doesn't market them in good faith, can he still get a refund for the unsold quantities?
13. If there's a dispute, can one party bring the other to court, or must they go to beis din?
14. Is the contract governed by civil law or Jewish law?
15. If there are any left erev yt, can Henche sell for less than cost? Is he required to? Does he get any commission from those sales?

I can go on...

I agree 100%.  But it's better than nothing, and also better than a form that has provisions for all 17 of those things but you havne't actually thought about if that's what you want.

Also, you don't always want to negotiate over every term.  Henche might trust Dan to give him good stuff, and Dan may trust henche to sell in good faith, especially since henche isn't allowed to sell for anyone else.  and henche can call Dan on erev yt and ask about dropping the price. 

henche and dan just want something more than a handshake, so that the deal they did negotiate (10%, minimum price, backing out, exclusivity) is memorialized and they feel like it's 'binding"

Offline good sam

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #244 on: July 25, 2016, 01:54:44 PM »
I agree 100%.  But it's better than nothing, and also better than a form that has provisions for all 17 of those things but you havne't actually thought about if that's what you want.

Also, you don't always want to negotiate over every term.  Henche might trust Dan to give him good stuff, and Dan may trust henche to sell in good faith, especially since henche isn't allowed to sell for anyone else.  and henche can call Dan on erev yt and ask about dropping the price. 

henche and dan just want something more than a handshake, so that the deal they did negotiate (10%, minimum price, backing out, exclusivity) is memorialized and they feel like it's 'binding"
But that's probably not true in OPs case.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline yelped

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #245 on: July 25, 2016, 06:15:17 PM »
Why can't he just download a standard rental contract with all legal terms and standard provisions and add to it as needed? They pretty much have everything covered.

Offline good sam

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #246 on: July 25, 2016, 06:40:50 PM »
Why can't he just download a standard rental contract with all legal terms and standard provisions and add to it as needed? They pretty much have everything covered.
I wasn't clear about what Zevi was looking for. Is it a standard lease agreement or an agreement with the leasing company?
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline Zevi16

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #247 on: July 25, 2016, 07:28:12 PM »
I wasn't clear about what Zevi was looking for. Is it a standard lease agreement or an agreement with the leasing company?
Thanx everyone foe their input. I'll be more specific.
Say henche calls zevi and asks zevi to help henche find an apartment for their stay in Israel. Zevi has a list of apartments belonging to numerous different people that asked zevi  to rent out for them.
Zevi decided that Henche will best match Sam's apartment.
Everyone agrees to the price and it is time to close on the deal.
A contract must be done 4 way.
Firstly binding henche to Sam in regard to paying Sam if henche damages anything. Also saying that if henche cancels henche will pay x amount..
Second. Binding Henche to pay zevi the agent fee even if henche cancels (but will get it back)
Third.  Binding Sam to henche that Sam won't cancel.
Fourth. Binding Sam to zevi to pay the agent fee.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #248 on: July 26, 2016, 12:04:16 AM »
Agent fee from both sides is definitely the way to go ;)

Offline good sam

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #249 on: July 26, 2016, 12:51:26 AM »
I would make 2 separate agreements. A lease agreement between owner and tenant,  and a commission agreement between owner and agent (and tenant if both sides are paying agent).
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Offline Zevi16

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #250 on: July 26, 2016, 01:16:56 AM »
Agent fee from both sides is definitely the way to go ;)
That's regular. At least in Israel.
We're actually planning on branching out to lakewood now. For long term
I would make 2 separate agreements. A lease agreement between owner and tenant,  and a commission agreement between owner and agent (and tenant if both sides are paying agent).
Thank you!

Offline thaber

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #251 on: July 27, 2016, 03:09:17 AM »
GIYF for all these forms,  and if you're careful and go through a few templates you'll get what you want.  I agree with having a separate commission agreement,  again,  Google will help.  For signing,  Docusign is your friend. 

Offline Zevi16

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #252 on: July 27, 2016, 06:29:15 AM »
GIYF for all these forms,  and if you're careful and go through a few templates you'll get what you want.  I agree with having a separate commission agreement,  again,  Google will help.  For signing,  Docusign is your friend.
Thanx!

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #253 on: August 01, 2016, 09:12:08 PM »
A good friend living in Florida told me about a phone call he got, which sounds like extortion to me.

Any advice on where he should go? Who should he talk to? Should he consult a lawyer first?

The party attempting the extortion seems to be very deep pocketed.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Any Lawyers out there of whom I may ask a question?
« Reply #254 on: August 01, 2016, 10:21:21 PM »
A good friend living in Florida told me about a phone call he got, which sounds like extortion to me.

Any advice on where he should go? Who should he talk to? Should he consult a lawyer first?

The party attempting the extortion seems to be very deep pocketed.
Fbi?
I'm no lawyer but why would the extortee need to be represented? Unless he wants to sue..