MISSING IN MONSEY: 50-Year-Old Peretz Sontag

[skyguy918]

What?

The Elyah Rabah seems to discount the story from the Sefer Chasidim (thereby undermining a potential basis the halachic validity of DNA testing) based on the story of Rebbi Banah in Bava Basra. The logic was that if the test of the Sefer Chasidim (see whether the father's bone absorbs the blood of the potential son) worked/was halachically valid, Rebbi Banah should have just done that test instead.

But that logic assumes that the blood of the mamzerim would not have been absorbed by the father's bone. Why wouldn't their blood be absorbed as well? In the story of the Sefer Chasidim, the blood that was rejected was the servant's who was not related to the father at all.

[Ergel]

The Elyah Rabah seems to discount the story from the Sefer Chasidim (thereby undermining a potential basis the halachic validity of DNA testing) based on the story of Rebbi Banah in Bava Basra. The logic was that if the test of the Sefer Chasidim (see whether the father's bone absorbs the blood of the potential son) worked/was halachically valid, Rebbi Banah should have just done that test instead.

But that logic assumes that the blood of the mamzerim would not have been absorbed by the father's bone. Why wouldn't their blood be absorbed as well? In the story of the Sefer Chasidim, the blood that was rejected was the servant's who was not related to the father at all.

A mamzer is not related to his "father" at all either.

[ckmk47]

How about fingerprints? Those are one-of-a-kind more than DNA.

DNA is much more conclusive than fingerprints. Especially when the body has aged.  OJ's lawyers made DNA seem subjective.  It's not.  It's like 1 out of 100 million chance of a second person having the same DNA.

[skyguy918]

A mamzer is not related to his "father" at all either.

Of course a mamzer is related to his actual father. 

I had been reading it that he had children with other married women, but now I looked at the actual gemara, and I see you're both correct. He heard his wife say that of 'their' 10 children, only one was from him.

[ckmk47]

I had been reading it that he had children with other married women, but now I looked at the actual gemara, and I see you're both correct. He heard his wife say that of 'their' 10 children, only one was from him.

In this thread, please be clear in your post that you're discussing the previously quoted sefer.  Not c"v the Sontags.

[skyguy918]

In this thread, please be clear in your post that you're discussing the previously quoted sefer.  Not c"v the Sontags.

They had 7 children. Why would you have thought I was referring to the Sontags?

[etech0]

They had 7 children. Why would you have thought I was referring to the Sontags?

not everyone would necessarily know/remember that. And people who are opening the thread and just reading the last post or two might not follow the conversation, and might get a very wrong impression.

[skyguy918]

not everyone would necessarily know/remember that. And people who are opening the thread and just reading the last post or two might not follow the conversation, and might get a very wrong impression.

In the future I'll make sure to be as clear as can be, but there's no way someone could read my actual post and think I was talking about the niftar.

Of course a mamzer is related to his actual father. 

I had been reading it that he had children with other married women, but now I looked at the actual gemara, and I see you're both correct. He heard his wife say that of 'their' 10 children, only one was from him.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the gemara. If you meant to say people might read part of my comment and get the wrong idea...

[YankyDoodle]

DNA is much more conclusive than fingerprints. It's like 1 out of 100 million chance of a second person having the same DNA.

Assuming the 2 individuals are unrelated, it is orders of magnitude more rare to have the same DNA (I don't know the numbers but way more than billions). You may be referring to the protocol used for testing DNA that only analyzes 13 loci (locations) in the DNA. This increases the chance of 2 people "having the same DNA". Also error and contamination must be taken into account.

[Crazy tools]

His car
Doubt he was niftar from impact alone

[springles]

In the future I'll make sure to be as clear as can be, but there's no way someone could read my actual post and think I was talking about the niftar.

I personally just opened the thread and read the posts on this page and while i didnt assume you were talking about the niftar, I did think it was a possibility and went back a page to see where this conversation came from

[etech0]

I personally just opened the thread and read the posts on this page and while i didnt assume you were talking about the niftar, I did think it was a possibility and went back a page to see where this conversation came from

And it's worth taking extra steps to avoid any potential misunderstandings about this

[churnbabychurn]

unfortunately, he may have been niftar prior to impact. Boruch Dayan HaEmes..

how's that?

[BigDanFan]

how's that?

lots of possible scenarios..

[churnbabychurn]

lots of possible scenarios..

Last I checked, someone has to apply pressure to the gas pedal...

[AnonymousUser]

Last I checked, someone has to apply pressure to the gas pedal...

... Unless the car was already cruising.

[churnbabychurn]

... Unless the car was already cruising.

Why go through the trouble of setting the cruise control?

[AnonymousUser]

Why go through the trouble of setting the cruise control?

I didn't mean set on cruise, rather that the car was already moving at a fast speed.

[A3]

Wow falling down a 60 foot ravine. Landing upside Down, the car is in pretty good condition. Sad they couldn't find him sooner.

[Aaaron]

Wow falling down a 60 foot ravine. Landing upside Down, the car is in pretty good condition. Sad they couldn't find him sooner.

Either reports are exaggerated or that's not his car.  There is NO way that car landed upside down or fell 60 feet.