Internet Filters

[DH Data Recovery]

Agreed, and all those ppl can get K9. I spent half of that day installing K9, but some ppl want more.

[dave345]

Thanks for responding and it's nice that you dedicate so much of your time to help the Klal but you haven't yet explained why this filter is being offered and what benefit it has over a free filter. According to YWN site there were 1500 of this product sold at the event. As someone that volunteered his time at the event can you please tell the public what benefits there are to this filter? What reasons did you give to explain why this is the recommended filter? As to the rest of your statements I'll respond accordingly below...

Ok lets start with the facts, as one of the technicians at this event I can tell you that we weren't instructed what filter to recommend, many of us - Myself included - spent most of the day installing k9. In my experience so far, and as I have said before  I didn't spend that much time trying to crack this filter - but i haven't seen the vulnerabilities yet.

Now lets discuss your initial post -
1) You dismiss a product as a scam without any specific knowledge about this product.

First I did read everything I could from your site and the site you linked to and I understand the technology very well and I can see the purpose for other reasons but I dont see how it's any more effective as an unbreakable filter.

2) You claim this how no benefit over K9 without knowing if this is indeed the case, or taking into account that K9 is a filter that can be bypassed pretty easily, if you Google k9 one of the first links that come up is how to get around it.

Maybe you didnt read my post but I explained that the reason you can google K9 and get so many results is because its a very common filter but this cloud based filtering is not popular and therefore the results are much fewer, but anyone can bypass the cloud just as easily as K9. Are you disputing this fact?

3) Venishmartem was never a money making organization - they were all about Public awareness and help, most of their website (especially until they produced their own filter) doesn't sell any of their own products.

So you say. I'd rather not get into whether you are making money off this product or not. The website says that 6 million dollars was invested in this filter! My question is for what?

4) They actually spent money and resources creating a free internet blocking app for blackberry.
Thank you.

5) if you read their filter guide you will see they clearly go thru each filter for each device with all the pros and cons.

I read them all and yet they dont give any good reasons for this costly cloud filter, which they claim is the best one. The old reason about K9 not protecting oneself as one knows the password was debunked long ago as one can just let his friend or neighbor install the software.

6) Many technicians (myself included) try to help people by installing filters at these events - for no charge. In the following days we start getting calls I want facebook open, I want youtube blocked etc, we then have to teach a tech dummy how to install remote software and spend hours with this! This was one of the reasons I wasn't installing filters as much lately. With a cloud based filter this issue disappears - and since they pay for the filter per month they are entitled to full support and that in itself is very important.

So than you should list this as the reason to pay for this filter as it provides full tech support. You can also just charge people for support with K9 or other filters or better yet just put links on your site for people that have technical questions. The product isn't being sold as such and that is misleading. It's sold as a better filter, not a filter with tech support.

7) You said "Thats true but I think the ball lies in their hand to say why its a better filter". Well in my book and I assume many other people the ball lies in your court to say why you feel something is a scam. Merely the fact that you dont know anything about it isn't a scam, call them and broaden your knowledge

Thats not true. I did look at all the information I can and there is no valid explanation as to why this filter is being recommended. I also wonder if the Rabonim that signed this sheet and support Vshinantom were told that you are pushing a product and what the benefits of the cloud filter are?

[dave345]

I should add that my accusation of this being a scam refers to the Bait-and-switch Scam. The flyer that was handed out about this event does not mention anything about costs. In fact it only says the word free on it. See here: http://goo.gl/MdvUm. You can read more about this typr of scam on this wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch

[DH Data Recovery]

1) Don't refer to me as Venishmartem, I'm completely unaffiliated, I'm a popular technician in Brooklyn and as such I'm called to many such events.

2) So according to your logic any paid filter is a scam because you can get K9 for free? Jnet, Filternet BlueCoat for Business (which is K9) are all scams?  Is every paid product a scam because you can get a similar product for free? You can get a free anti-virus or a paid one similarly you can get a free filter or paid filter.

3) Why can anyone bypass cloud just as easily as K9 - VCF is based on Livigent which Jnet has been using for years, afaik its much harder to bypass than K9!

4) Whether they do make money or not at this point which I don't know as I'm unaffiliated with them, they are doing a service that nobody did till now and are doing it in a way that gives you the power to decide your filtering level.

5) this isn't such a costly filter compared to others, Jnet was always more expensive.

Honestly I'm not sure what your trying to prove, it wasn't listed as being a free filter, we were installing free filters as well. Nobody came to me and said try to push one filter over the other, but at the end of the day everyone knows k9 has many vulnerabilities! When a parent comes to me and says he has children that are very tech savvy is K9 enough for them I tell it like it is.

[Galitzyaner]

Thats not true. I did look at all the information I can and there is no valid explanation as to why this filter is being recommended. I also wonder if the Rabonim that signed this sheet and support Vshinantom were told that you are pushing a product and what the benefits of the cloud filter are?

From venishmartem to vshinantom, LOL! 

[myuser]

I was directed to this post from Twitter.

First, since when was TheJNet a successful company or a company to put hopes on, they are considered a big failure so please don't reference this company as a success.

Livigent is nothing more than a proxy filtering server designed in Romania doing content and image filtering, the product was designed to run on a server locally and was never designed to be used in a mass scale.

The fact is the ones who deployed them already are failing, NetTzach in Israel by Belz, Satmar Zalman Leib named Meshimer, the only reason why they even got any subscribers was for the fact that they threatened to kick out the kids from school if this product is not purchased.

Based on all feedbacks including B&H Photo, despite all the technical resources and money to make this product a success it's one big failure, it's not secure, it's not reliable and it's not fast.

Even the images are not properly filtered it cannot filter flash images, black-and-white images or other application-based images, it does not work completely on facial recognition as it modifies all images in this skin color family, why not block those pornography related sites and the woman's section of the department stores websites.

Content filtering, how could you define good from bad blogs? and if you need human interventions why do we need live content, K9 and most other filters are doing a magnificent job defining sites which are considered pornography or bad depending the categories.

K9 can be easily uninstalled, can you exactly tell me how to uninstall K9  the latest release? I will tell you how to remove this software in fact so this argument is very lousy.

Livigent is slow problematic and if you have any speed issues to argue on K9 this product would be your nightmare.

[DovtheBear]

I was directed to this post from Twitter.

[myuser]

TheJNet, Kosher Net are out of business not because they were successful or they had good products, they had nothing to offer in comparison to free K9, not even service, as long as your arguments against K9 will continue being silly like it could easily be removed it will keep on rising while others will keep on failing, I don't know anyone who recently successfully disabled the product and the ones who are technical enough to disable it your product is not worth either.

[elikay]

I did not realize that link pointed to "that blog" he's got an ax to grind
I will not go through the purported weaknesses of each filter as that will help none. But for the hamoin am, to quote Rabbi Reisman "to keep good people good" even a filter with vulnerabilities is better than nothing.

[elikay]

Take a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath!

[myuser]

Why people consider this product a scam?
HATZOLAH, did you ever see them coming up with solutions saving people and then charge money or they use solutions available and do it for free to help others.
This Venishmartem product when it's provided by a nonprofit organization and cannot make the argument for donations so for it to be free is worth nothing, we don't need a new filter product which is worth nothing, and if you sell it for something it's a scam besides if you tell me it's not a nonprofit and it's a business and if it's a business let them say so and don't play the double facing game.

[elikay]

Why people consider this product a scam?
HATZOLAH, did you ever see them coming up with solutions saving people and then charge money or they use solutions available and do it for free to help others.
This Venishmartem product when it's provided by a nonprofit organization and cannot make the argument for donations so for it to be free is worth nothing, we don't need a new filter product which is worth nothing, and if you sell it for something it's a scam besides if you tell me it's not a nonprofit and it's a business and if it's a business let them say so and don't play the double facing game.

A server based solution will never be free.

[Galitzyaner]

I did not realize that link pointed to "that blog" he's got an ax to grind

Can you enlighten us as to what the axe is?  I've never heard of him before, only of his late father (who's articles I'd read, and often find myself disagreeing with, and sometimes enjoying) A"H.

[churnbabychurn]

I did not realize that link pointed to "that blog" he's got an ax to grind
I will not go through the purported weaknesses of each filter as that will help none. But for the hamoin am, to quote Rabbi Reisman "to keep good people good" even a filter with vulnerabilities is better than nothing.

+1
The point of a filter is to protect a normal person from having an occasional weak moment, not to lock out all evil permanently, if someone is so driven that he google's how to bypass a filter etc., he can also go buy a mag...Most filters are fine.

[elikay]

Can you enlighten us as to what the axe is?  I've never heard of him before, only of his late father (who's articles I'd read, and often find myself disagreeing with, and sometimes enjoying) A"H.

The guy has been making fun of filters from day one regardless of free (yes the same k9 he is sticking up for now!) or paid!

[churnbabychurn]

The guy has been making fun of filters from day one regardless of free (yes the same k9 he is sticking up for now!) or paid!

+3

[Galitzyaner]

+1
The point of a filter is to protect a normal person from having an occasional weak moment, not to lock out all evil permanently, if someone is so driven that he google's how to bypass a filter etc., he can also go buy a mag...Most filters are fine.

Doesn't that only prove the point of the detractors of this new filter under criticism?! 

[myuser]

And why I feel it's a scam, they have two products VCF Basic (Powered by Websense), VCF Pro (Powered by Livgent), can you please tell me what's  the benefit of using VCF Basic vs K9, let's forget about VCF Pro with its stupid image filtering, why VCF Basic? it happens to be K9 has many more features and is much more stable and it's free, why should a nonprofit organization sell a product when you have the same and better for free, they basically opened a can of worms and let them answer for themselves.

It's server base, who cares? As long as TAG or Guard Your Eyes is willing to offer free assistance what's the point?

[Galitzyaner]

The guy has been making fun of filters from day one regardless of free (yes the same k9 he is sticking up for now!) or paid!

Hhmmm, interesting.  I'll wait to hear what he has to say about that...

[myuser]

The guy has been making fun of filters? Last year before Citi Field he made reasonable points including education and you cannot argue on some of those facts you could make fun if that's the only answer you could give otherwise please tell me how to remove K9