Internet Filters

[elikay]

@chaimfried
All those who know you (I do) know, that you are a mad computer whiz/hacker since you were in diapers. I doubt anyone can make a filter that you can't get around. And for the record I once heard regarding a certain product that if it took you five minutes to figure it out then it must be an excellent product

[DovtheBear]

Any useful info in this thread?

Not in the last 30+ pages.

[chaimmayer]

Can you stop talking like an idiot and asking those dumb questions, I'm asking a realistic questions, if a filter can be disabled with a single command and knowing the software cannot automatically be patched and updated, is this is solution? Is this the replacement to K9? Can you tell me exactly the advantages one by one of the following products, Meshimer filter, Venishmartem VCF Pro filter or any other Livigent filter.

Who exactly are you preaching to? Does the הנהלה of your children's school read ddf?

[DH Data Recovery]

@myuser - your point should be discussed with your childrens schools. The fact that your childrens school required a certain filter shouldn't put them at fault. Its a separate issue entirely - imagine you would tell me that all regular glasses are worse quality than plastic glasses because your school doesn't let your kids wear them.

[myuser]

Who exactly are you preaching to? Does the הנהלה of your children's school read ddf?

Yes, Mershimer and Vaad Mishmeres are both organizations of Satmar Rebbe Rabbi Zalman Leib Teitelbaum, they impose the rules, I know for a fact they are monitoring closely this website and the website I got the info on how to disable the filter.

Just like everyone else they are shocked and surprised how simple the filter can be disabled and re-enabled without leaving any tracks at a time this was supposed to be the unbreakable filter, internally they call it the Black Friday.

[DH Data Recovery]

I still don't get what your end game is?

[myuser]

@myuser - your point should be discussed with your childrens schools. The fact that your childrens school required a certain filter shouldn't put them at fault. Its a separate issue entirely - imagine you would tell me that all regular glasses are worse quality than plastic glasses because your school doesn't let your kids wear them.

It's okay, we have work to do we need to monitor if they will update the software automatically and apply patches or the whole situation is a joke, let's give it a few weeks enough time for action.

I have no problem with a school for my kids I will install any filter they want it will be part of my tuition.

[DH Data Recovery]

You may as well just say you did and keep k9 for the same price
ETA: actually for cheaper

[Baruch]

No it does NOT work perfectly for you as you have UNFILTERED internet, you do have an operating system on your computer that is filtered as long as I don't tell you how to remove it, or as long as you don't reinstall the OS, or as long as  you don't boot that same computer to a different OS (live cd, usb etc).
It is very responsible to publish how to bypass it, as it will make you aware that you have unfiltered internet, since for some reason you are too dumb to understand that otherwise.

If I'm too dumb to understand how to bypass my filter, my internet is still filtered.
I also can go to my local grocer and by a mag, I don't have to download an OS on a USB. 
The point of a filter is that one should not to fall in a weak moment. One who is obsessed with seeing bad stuff, nothing will stop him.

[chaimfried]

The point of a filter is to filter not to paralyze. There's a way around everything! Hardware filters, software filters everything! If someone really wants he will get himself another unfiltered device or a million other tricks. The point of a filter is A. Protect your family from accidentally getting to the wrong place. B. Protect yourself as much as possible in your moments of weakness etc.
This conversation started off regarding a specific filter and we discussed and addressed most of it.
@chaimfried I'm completely confused as to what your saying, are you saying no filters? are you saying that since they can be bypassed by someone with enough skill its entirely worthless? That's the equivalent of telling me not to use a firewall because it can still be hacked!

Is the point also to allow people to get unfiltered internet?
You are still missing the point, a software filter means the Internet is NOT filtered. Period. End of discussion.
How many devices can now connect to the internet other than a computer?

[chaimfried]

The point of a filter is to filter not to paralyze. There's a way around everything! Hardware filters, software filters everything! If someone really wants he will get himself another unfiltered device or a million other tricks. The point of a filter is A. Protect your family from accidentally getting to the wrong place. B. Protect yourself as much as possible in your moments of weakness etc.
This conversation started off regarding a specific filter and we discussed and addressed most of it.
@chaimfried I'm completely confused as to what your saying, are you saying no filters? are you saying that since they can be bypassed by someone with enough skill its entirely worthless? That's the equivalent of telling me not to use a firewall because it can still be hacked!

I'm saying software filters are useless, since the line is not filtered. Please refer to my original post.
BTW, it does not take skill to bypass a software filter. Get another device or another OS and you bypassed it.

[chaimfried]

@chaimfried
All those who know you (I do) know, that you are a mad computer whiz/hacker since you were in diapers. I doubt anyone can make a filter that you can't get around. And for the record I once heard regarding a certain product that if it took you five minutes to figure it out then it must be an excellent product

Ouch, so with this the physical Internet is now filtered?

[DH Data Recovery]

It doesn't either take skill to bypass a hardware filter - get another device! use any old phone and connect to any open wireless network!
Hardware has as many flaws as software does!

[chaimfried]

If I'm too dumb to understand how to bypass my filter, my internet is still filtered.
I also can go to my local grocer and by a mag, I don't have to download an OS on a USB. 
The point of a filter is that one should not to fall in a weak moment. One who is obsessed with seeing bad stuff, nothing will stop him.

Like I said too dumb.

Your Internet (not your computer) is still unfiltered.

[Baruch]

Like I said too dumb.

Your Internet (not your computer) is still unfiltered.

If I have no clue (because I'm dumb) how to bypass my filter, my computer and internet are filtered for me. If you don't understand that maybe you're dumb. I'm just not used to calling people dumb (I graduated 2nd grade) . I try to win an argument on the strength of the argument, not by calling people dumb.

[chaimfried]

It doesn't either take skill to bypass a hardware filter - get another device! use any old phone and connect to any open wireless network!
Hardware has as many flaws as software does!

Yes and no.
The actual bypass is easy, plug out plug in. However, not every environment allows for that, if you run a server and have a full network, you cant really do it. As you are going to mess up the whole network.

In smaller environments you are right. But as said before, your line - as long as your hardware filters is plugged in - is filtered.
While the ease of removing it with hardware is an issue, the fact that a software filter doesn't filter the line at all is a way bigger issue. Since the ignorant user (read; more than 90%) thinks he has a filter (look they accepted his kids and he has a meshimer certificate, so how can you say its not filtered). When in fact he doesn't have a filter. Ipod, iPhones, laptops, playstations, a borrowed laptop. They can all now connect via his unfiltered internet because his permanent computer now has a software filter.

My original post also mentioned provider based filters. In cases where the network environment is not that much controlled (small office/home based office) a device based filter doesn't work either (this is specifically the case, where the user thinks he might bypass it for a small office, and for ANY home) and such a user must then take a provider based filter.

[chaimfried]

If I have no clue (because I'm dumb) how to bypass my filter, my computer and internet are filtered for me. If you don't understand that maybe you're dumb. I'm just not used to calling people dumb (I graduated 2nd grade) . I try to win an argument on the strength of the argument, not by calling people dumb.

Again you are too dumb. But I'll try to explain it anyhow.
You are still busy with your computer, because you are too dumb:
* To understand that a computer is not the only device that uses internet
* To realize that your Internet is NOT filtered when you have a filter on your computer.
* To know that your kids/workers are smarter than you and you shouldn't have unfiltered internet at home or work. Period.
* To understand the argument is not about how dumb you are and therefore the internet is filtered, but about the fact that your internet is not filtered regardless if you understand it or not.
* To understand that I win this argument regardless if I call you dumb or not because you ARE dumb, not because I called you dumb.
* To understand that by repeating your same stupidity (my computer is filtered hence my internet is filtered, I don't know how to bypass it, hence its filtered blah blah blah) you don't present an argument.

[Baruch]

Again you are too dumb. But I'll try to explain it anyhow.
You are still busy with your computer, because you are too dumb:
* To understand that a computer is not the only device that uses internet
* To realize that your Internet is NOT filtered when you have a filter on your computer.
* To know that your kids/workers are smarter than you and you shouldn't have unfiltered internet at home or work. Period.
* To understand the argument is not about how dumb you are and therefore the internet is filtered, but about the fact that your internet is not filtered regardless if you understand it or not.
* To understand that I win this argument regardless if I call you dumb or not because you ARE dumb, not because I called you dumb.
* To understand that by repeating your same stupidity (my computer is filtered hence my internet is filtered, I don't know how to bypass it, hence its filtered blah blah blah) you don't present an argument.

If you wouldn't have sprinkled your comments with so many insults, I would have read them carefully to see if they have any content.

I understand that my internet is not filtered if I get a different device. But I can also go buy a mag. In fact I could not install a filter in the first place on my original computer.

I don't have children of age to get a device.

Therefore if someone publishes a way around my filter, he took away the filter which protects me from falling in a bad moment.

Stop calling people dumb, it makes you look foolish.


Understanding tech doesn't equal understanding people. In fact techies have a reputation of not being socially intelligent. I'm not saying that's true. But you're definitely strengthening that stereotype. So from this dummy to you - the geek I say - please don't publish ways around filters.

Listen to Elikay - he understands tech and people. 

[chaimfried]

If you wouldn't have sprinkled your comments with so many insults, I would have read them carefully to see if they have any content.

I understand that my internet is not filtered if I get a different device. But I can also go buy a mag. In fact I could not install a filter in the first place on my original computer.

I don't have children of age to get a device.

Therefore if someone publishes a way around my filter, he took away the filter which protects me from falling in a bad moment.

Stop calling people dumb, it makes you look foolish.


Understanding tech doesn't equal understanding people. In fact techies have a reputation of not being socially intelligent. I'm not saying that's true. But you're definitely strengthening that stereotype. So from this dummy to you - the geek I say - please don't publish ways around filters.

Listen to Elikay - he understands tech and people.

I have to admit cute post.
That said, while you mention valid points why you think your line doesn't have to be filtered because you don't have kids of age etc. You still have an unfiltered line at home.

You might not see it as an issue, but those that want to impose the filter on you do see it as an issue and their lack of understanding what they are doing is the issue here.

As for why I would publish how to bypass (btw, I didn't yet on this one, even though I have a simple way to bypass it, but I did for Nativ). Since those that release it claim its not possible to bypass and the fact that some techies can bypass means nothing. It is therefore important to publish it so that the claim of non techies is wrong.

There's no way of telling who's 9 year old is a techie that knows how to bypass it.

[elikay]

As for why I would publish how to bypass...

I doubt בי"ד ש"מ will go for that there are much better ways to accomplish things...