Internet Filters

[Centro]

I was going through this thread reading every other post and I was very annoyed and just couldn't resist.

Mr Myuser with my full respect to you, what exactly is bothering you?

Basically what our communities did the past few months was establishing a new filter which will suit the needs of our comunity, putting together a database to be able to serve our needs.

There was no program in history which was released functioning 100% with no bugs and loopholes or so, this it the way you build something,
Eventually these new released filters will be much more suitable for us then K9 and the other filter out there, so if this is what it takes to get there then this is what will be done to get there.

If what you're saying is that you know the way around the filter ( I read it somewhere in this thread, not sure who wrote it ) then you just got the wrong idea what filters are here for,
If somebody wants to access shmutz then there's no way to stop him, if it's not on his phone he'll get it on an other device,
If it's not on a device he'll get it in any other form or place etc., so there's no such a thing as "shmutz proofing" a person,
so we try the best, our IT's are there updating the filters and one day we will have strong filters which will work at it's best and serve our needs,

And as I wrote, if it takes what it takes then we have to go through it.

So we shouldn't do it cause there are bumps on the way?
Come on sir, don't act silly!!

[DH Data Recovery]

@myuser, your argument keeps changing. First it was no livigent but get k9. Then it was no software filter at all - not livigent or k9, only get hardware filters. Then it was hardware plus software because hardware by itself isn't enough and software isn't completely worthless. Then its hardware + software but you will tell us how to crack the software filter so that we can be responsible. Now its back to plain and simple anything but livigent because you want to help protect ppl from........
Truth is hardware or software filters are both just to help ppl. There's still a gaping hole left to exploit even if you have hardware + software! A bootable OS in a unsecured wifi hotspot or mifi device and you bypass all filters!
We try to help as much as possible by giving ppl the proper tools to help themselves. Giving ppl the keys to bypass these doesn't do anyone any good!

[kracked dude]

Giving ppl the keys to bypass these doesn't do anyone any good!

Well said!
If someone finds out from this thread that his filter is worthless it opens up in his mind the option to bypass the filter and access all the shmutz he wants.  Whereas previously he thought he had no access and therefore much less of a tayva.

[myuser]

I was going through this thread reading every other post and I was very annoyed and just couldn't resist.

Mr Myuser with my full respect to you, what exactly is bothering you?

Basically what our communities did the past few months was establishing a new filter which will suit the needs of our comunity, putting together a database to be able to serve our needs.

There was no program in history which was released functioning 100% with no bugs and loopholes or so, this it the way you build something,
Eventually these new released filters will be much more suitable for us then K9 and the other filter out there, so if this is what it takes to get there then this is what will be done to get there.

If what you're saying is that you know the way around the filter ( I read it somewhere in this thread, not sure who wrote it ) then you just got the wrong idea what filters are here for,
If somebody wants to access shmutz then there's no way to stop him, if it's not on his phone he'll get it on an other device,
If it's not on a device he'll get it in any other form or place etc., so there's no such a thing as "shmutz proofing" a person,
so we try the best, our IT's are there updating the filters and one day we will have strong filters which will work at it's best and serve our needs,

And as I wrote, if it takes what it takes then we have to go through it.

So we shouldn't do it cause there are bumps on the way?
Come on sir, don't act silly!!

First fix the bumps SSL you created with Jnet from day one then you will have credibility with the new product.

We are waiting to see when this bump in the new product will be fixed I believe it will be like your first filter and now it's up to you to prove it.

As I post before Livigent is missgiding and has a pruvin record.

[myuser]

Well said!
If someone finds out from this thread that his filter is worthless it opens up in his mind the option to bypass the filter and access all the shmutz he wants.  Whereas previously he thought he had no access and therefore much less of a tayva.

Let them find out now and change to something good and not at a soft moment or after the fact there kids got around

This product is new and no one is still using it as it has many other biger problems then disabling this stupid filter so exposing it now is acceptable by all arguments

[myuser]

@myuser, your argument keeps changing. First it was no livigent but get k9. Then it was no software filter at all - not livigent or k9, only get hardware filters. Then it was hardware plus software because hardware by itself isn't enough and software isn't completely worthless. Then its hardware + software but you will tell us how to crack the software filter so that we can be responsible. Now its back to plain and simple anything but livigent because you want to help protect ppl from........
Truth is hardware or software filters are both just to help ppl. There's still a gaping hole left to exploit even if you have hardware + software! A bootable OS in a unsecured wifi hotspot or mifi device and you bypass all filters!
We try to help as much as possible by giving ppl the proper tools to help themselves. Giving ppl the keys to bypass these doesn't do anyone any good!

You are mixing up my arguments with someone else I happen to agree with

[chaimfried]

@chaim fried - right now who is more at risk? A person with a hardware filter that can logon to a different wifi hotspot or use a dif device, or a software filter thats 80% filtered unless someone recklessly teaches them how to get around it!
Most people aren't trying to get around the filter, and software filters are perfect for them. hardware filters aren't!

Let's go in circles. Love'em

[chaimfried]

+100 Mods please clean this thread up!  Its not worth one נשמע!  All you need is one bachur/kid who has access to DDF and we can ruin his life.  Yes the ways of getting around filters might seem simple and well know to you, but not to everyone. its just not worth the risk. 
PLEASE BE RESPONSIBLE

Wow, what a great post. But חס ויחלילה to get your internet filtered.

[DH Data Recovery]

You keep avoiding the problem with your argument, you're fighting against software filters and carrying the torch for hardware filters. Hardware filters are less of a filter than software filters in most cases. You're obviously used to dealing with companies where hardware helps because nobody is moving the systems anywhere. In the home environment thats not true.
More people today have laptops than computers in the home user environment, a hardware filter = NO Filter at all! Definitely less than the weakest software filter!

[elikay]

As I post before Livigent is missgiding and has a pruvin record.

Looks like you found a way around your spell check ;D

[myuser]

You keep avoiding the problem with your argument, you're fighting against software filters and carrying the torch for hardware filters. Hardware filters are less of a filter than software filters in most cases. You're obviously used to dealing with companies where hardware helps because nobody is moving the systems anywhere. In the home environment thats not true.
More people today have laptops than computers in the home user environment, a hardware filter = NO Filter at all! Definitely less than the weakest software filter!

As @chaimfried said keep your internet unfiltered I guess it will become a problem when if Livigent has something for the network the fact is it's open internet 

[DH Data Recovery]

@myuser you have a long history here of trying to twist questions around and avoiding answering them directly and properly. This has always been the way of the wrong party - or the confused party - tries to argue. It's a real shame because in parts of this long overdrawn conversation you come off sounding intelligent, but in other parts its as if you know you can't give a sufficient argument and you give up. It's really comes off very desparate.

[myuser]

@myuser you have a long history here of trying to twist questions around and avoiding answering them directly and properly. This has always been the way of the wrong party - or the confused party - tries to argue. It's a real shame because in parts of this long overdrawn conversation you come off sounding intelligent, but in other parts its as if you know you can't give a sufficient argument and you give up. It's really comes off very desparate.

I left off with you that we are going to wait a few weeks to see if updates with Livigent software can be done automatically.

I think I answered all your questions maybe on some we dressage 

@chaimfried is bringing out a new point about not addressing open internet I said its a strong argument and I see why both are needed hardware and software, I am asking why not do both 

This goes to TAG why are they only installing K9 software and not some hardware at least let the person know it's recommend both

[kracked dude]

Let them find out now and change to something good and not at a soft moment or after the fact there kids got around

This product is new and no one is still using it as it has many other biger problems then disabling this stupid filter so exposing it now is acceptable by all arguments

How do you know that when they find out now its not a weak moment for them, and because you posted the way around his filter he will go straight away and go view shmutz? We are not malochim and we all have tayvos. Yes even grown adults. Im not taking sides in this argument of what kind of filter to get as im not a techie and dont pretend to be one, all i know is that for lots of people just knowing they have installed a filter takes away alot of the tayvoh,  now that they are exposed to the weakness of their filter you are exposing them to falling to their yetzer hora. If you want to expose the weakness of filters you can go ahead and expose but im sure you can find better ways of exposing then a tell all guide on how to bypass your filter.  What you are doing is not the derech hayashar. I strongly urge you to reconsider your actions.  Yes we all get your point that the filters out there are highly inadequate but please do not give us the tools needed to fall to our yetzer hora. 

[chaimfried]

You keep avoiding the problem with your argument, you're fighting against software filters and carrying the torch for hardware filters. Hardware filters are less of a filter than software filters in most cases. You're obviously used to dealing with companies where hardware helps because nobody is moving the systems anywhere. In the home environment thats not true.
More people today have laptops than computers in the home user environment, a hardware filter = NO Filter at all! Definitely less than the weakest software filter!

Again circles, and don't put words into my mouth.
I have said before and ill say it again, software filters has its use.  But just a software filter in a home means the internet is unfiltered. Period.

Now you have come to an assumption that hardware filter is less than software filter. You are wrong. In fact meshimer/livigent has the same filter (as their software version) on a hardware box. How on earth can then a device that filters the line be less of a filter than that of a software that filters only one computer? 

[DH Data Recovery]

Because most of the filters are installed on laptops and its easier to change the line (location) than bypass any filter

[myuser]

How do you know that when they find out now its not a weak moment for them, and because you posted the way around his filter he will go straight away and go view shmutz? We are not malochim and we all have tayvos. Yes even grown adults. Im not taking sides in this argument of what kind of filter to get as im not a techie and dont pretend to be one, all i know is that for lots of people just knowing they have installed a filter takes away alot of the tayvoh,  now that they are exposed to the weakness of their filter you are exposing them to falling to their yetzer hora. If you want to expose the weakness of filters you can go ahead and expose but im sure you can find better ways of exposing then a tell all guide on how to bypass your filter.  What you are doing is not the derech hayashar. I strongly urge you to reconsider your actions.  Yes we all get your point that the filters out there are highly inadequate but please do not give us the tools needed to fall to our yetzer hora.

I don't see the problem DH Data Recovery said he received an email from Livigent it's a bug and its fixed, we agreed if they can fix the problem by automatically updating the software has potential and by the time someone gets to DDF the bypass will not work, if they can't fix it automatically then I am telling you don't use it and if anyone installs it keep them responsible for being irresponsible recommending it and installing it for you

[myuser]

Because most of the filters are installed on laptops and its easier to change the line (location) than bypass any filter

But why not use both if they have both?

[sillypainter]

Is anybody with me that this subject became nauseating now, and it should be vented in PM mode form now on?

[DH Data Recovery]

most ppl won't use both because they don't know how to get around the filter, I agree though - you need to at least secure the router and modem otherwise any device can be connected to it. I think you need at least a physically locked router and modem if you have kids in the house and are worried about them connecting additional devices to the router.