Topic Wiki

If you are travelling to South Africa with a child under 18, you will need to have a birth certificate for the child which includes the names of both parents as they are on the parents' passports. They are very strict about this and will not let you in without it.

For a detailed look at the rules, including what is needed for a child travelling with only one parent or alone see here


Cape Town

Trip Reports
Cbs - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=30280.msg857566#msg857566
Markus - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=50630.msg1096441#msg1096441
shmebeble - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3986.msg742580#msg742580
Yaalili - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=50630.msg1096588#msg1096588
Ponash123- forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=55289.msg1257724#msg1257724
Yehoshua- starting here: forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=64252.msg1514765#msg1514765
Jomaster28 - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=84963.0

UPDATED: http://www.uos.co.za/kashrut/ct_kosher.asp


Restaurants


Avron's Place (Sea Point)
The longest running kosher meat restaurant in South Africa, Avron’s Place on Sea Point’s Regent Road is a very popular choice amongst Cape Town’s Orthodox Jewish community. The humbly adorned, family-friendly eatery, which is supervised by the Beth Din, serves a wide variety of dishes, including beef ribs, burgers, mixed grills, boerewors, Cape lamb curry, vegetarian platters, pastas and sushi. Though prices are generally rather reasonable (particularly by kosher food standards), Avron’s drops costs further on Tuesdays with a special on its beef burger and chips (R49 instead of the usual R59). The restaurant also does takeaways and catering for functions and will gladly pack Shabbat meals for visitors to Cape Town. For the Sephardim the meat is Bet Yosef. But check to make sure.
Opening Hours: Sunday – Thursday: 11am – 3pm; 5pm – 10pm; Friday: 11am – 2:30pm
19 – 33 Regent Road | Sea Point | Cape Town | +27 (0)21 439 7610
https://www.zomato.com/capetown/avrons-place-sea-point/menu.


The Press (Sea Point) Restaurant and Bar (many craft beers on tap)


Opening Hours: Sunday – Thursday: noon – late Friday: 11am – 3pm Sat night: 1 hour after Shabbat till late
176 Main Road | Sea Point | Cape Town | +27 (0)21 434 7724



Coffee Time (Gardens)
Set in an old house in a lush, garden environment, this kosher milchik coffee shop is a fine option for a relaxing breakfast, brunch or lunch on a sunny day. Guests can sit outside on the lawn while enjoying stunning views of Table Mountain and tucking into anything from a scrambled egg, salmon and humus wrap or fish bobotie with homemade chutney to tuna lasagne, a sandwich, salad, quiche or smoothie. The eatery runs an early-morning special between 8am and 11am (a combo of two eggs, grilled tomato and mushrooms goes for R25) and also serves a delicious, and incredibly popular, buffet lunch every Wednesday between 12:30pm and 2:30pm. For those will allergies, there are gluten-free and sugar-free options, and Coffee Time caters for functions – think weddings, bat/bar mitzvahs or birthdays – too. As the cherry on the kosher cake, all proceeds from the restaurant go to supporting the Astra Centre, which aims to provide employment for those with mental illnesses and special needs, so diners can rest assured their meal is helping out a good cause.
Opening Hours: Monday – Thursday: 8am – 3:30pm; Friday: 8am – 3pm
20 Breda Street | Gardens | Cape Town | +27 (0)21 461 8414


Café Riteve (Gardens)
This charming milchik café, which was founded in 2000, is conveniently located right in the heart of town on a piazza that’s part of the same centre as the historical Gardens Shul, the South African Jewish Museum, the Cape Town Holocaust Centre and the Jacob Gitlin Library. The menu is large and varied and includes items like a three-egg omelette, sushi salad, grilled hake, falafel with dukkah wedges and humus, tuna and mushroom cannelloni, smoked salmon and cream cheese sandwich and chocolate ganache-filled croissant. For the thirsty, the eatery also sells a range of shakes and juices as well as kosher wine and liquors. It caters for special occasions and offers takeaways, but unfortunately doesn’t deliver; though, considering that the interior is tastefully adorned and the ambience inviting, Jewish diners will likely want to spend some time at the café in any case.They had some CY, just ask. The earlier you go the more likely the have.
Opening Hours: Sunday – Thursday: 8:30am – 5pm; Friday: 8:30am – 3pm
88 Hatfield Street | Gardens | Cape Town | +27 (0)21 465 1594
https://www.zomato.com/capetown/cafe-riteve-gardens/menu.


Goldies Deli and Diner (Sea Point)
Started by Goldie Wener back in 1992, this popular kosher food spot has evolved over time from a small home business to include a meat and parev deli, a sit-down diner and a bakery. The simple but flavourful fare is still made from Goldie’s grandmother’s recipes, and options include burgers, steak rolls, schwarmas, bagels, salads, fish cakes, breakfast plates and more. Plus, there are specials every Wednesday and Friday (these change weekly but you can look forward to deals like a three-course meal for four for R120) and there’s also a very affordable seniors menu for elderly individuals living in and around the area (delivery is free in Sea Point). The bakery stocks delectable treats like carrot cake, cinnamon twists, chocolate brownies, doughnuts, cupcakes, apple crumble, croissants and teiglach. Kosher Cape Town dwellers can also place orders for Shabbat meals if they don’t have the time to prepare the dishes themselves.
Opening Hours: Sunday – Thursday: 8:30am – 8pm; Friday: 8:30am – 4:30pm
174 Main Road | Sea Point | Cape Town | +27 (0)21 439 3008
https://www.zomato.com/capetown/goldies-deli-sea-point/menu.



Baskin Robbins @ Mojo Market (Sea Point)
Note: This is the only kosher B & R
All ice creams, ice cream cones, milkshakes and waffles are Kosher, milchik.
The following topping ONLY are kosher: Crushed Almonds, Crushed Cashews, Fudge, Mini Astros, Mint Crunch
NB: Cakes are NOT KOSHER

Bakeries, Groceries & Ice Cream
Checkers Sea Point- 76 Regent Road - They have a large selection of kosher products including a kosher take out and bakery.
Spar Sea Point - 96 Regent Road - They have a large selection of kosher products including a kosher take out and bakery.

Shuls

Hotels with Points near a Shul (Walking Minutes)
Protea Sea Point

Airport Transfer Options
Cab -
Executive Bus -
Public Bus -
Train -

Major Activities
Boulders Beach
   - For budget travelers, take the train to Simonstown and from there a cab to Boulders beach - R20.
    - 35 mins from CPT
    - Can hop fence
    - "I found that there were two different entrances, boardwalk and beach. The boardwalk has a higher density of penguins but if you want a better experience, I recommend visiting the beach side- especially at low tide. Because of the tide I was able to walk past the few dozen folks on the beach, climb under and over some boulders, and encounter effectively a different private beach- with penguins!!"
Betty’s Bay
    - a less crowded, and not as known, boulders beach with penguins
Chapman's Peak Drive
   - Beautiful scenery, you have the mountain on one side and the ocean on the other side, great pics, great to make a BBQ come during daylight hours.
    - 45 rand per car
    - 45 mins from CPT
Cape of Good Hope/Cape Point
    - LONG but AMAZING drive
    - almost a full day activity
    - 135 rand pp
    - 1.5 hours from CPT
Lions Head (Hike - not difficult)
    - paragliding - around $85 (prices might be outdated)
        - BOOK AHEAD
Robben Island
Table Mountain (Cable car or hike)
    - Follow on Twitter for updates on if open or closed
    - Can repel down
        - 895 rand pp (prices might be outdated)
            - repel for like 15 mins
            - hike back up is 25 mins
    - Chairlift costs 255 rand pp
    - Closes 6pm
    - BOOK IN ADVANCE
Signal Hill (go there for a sunset with bit more a "local" flavor.
V & A Waterfront
The Garden Route - long scenic drive
Kirstenbosch Gardens
Shark Diving
  - Can do so in Gansbaii
  - $88 +$34 for video (prices might be outdated)
  - 2 hour drive from CPT
  - Links:1, 2, 3
Sandboarding
   - Bring goggles!
Skydiving
   - Price: $170 (prices might be outdated)
   - Cheaper
Quad Biking (ATVs)
Hout Bay market
Cango Wildlife Ranch
Cheetah outreach
    - where you can go and pet cheetahs and other animals super cool
Winelands : [Likely way more then listed but those are the few I remember]
(Might be worthwhile to make a trip to the winelands, even if one does not enjoy wine, for the scenery. Only about an hour or two from CPT)
      - Franschoek
      - Kosher wineries:
          - Kleine Dracken
          - backsberg

Johannesburg

Trip Reports
Cbs - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=30280.msg857566#msg857566
Markus - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=50630.msg1096441#msg1096441
Yaalili - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=50630.msg1096553#msg1096553
Yehuda57 - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3986.msg1049828#msg1049828
Ponash123 -forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=55289.msg1252248#msg1252248
Yehoshua- starting here: forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=64252.msg1514741#msg1514741

Restaurants
http://www.uos.co.za/kashrut/restaurants.asp

http://yeahthatskosher.com/2013/04/kosher-restaurants-travel-advice-for-johannesburg-south-africa-joberg/

Map of Kosher Johannesburg

Corner Cafe (Glenhazel)
Corner Café is the best place to go (or maybe the only) for kosher gluten free muffins. I’m told they’re very good. They also have great breakfasts and pastas, but I usually stick with a toasted cheese and chips.
Corner of Queens square and cross road in Glenhazel, Phone: +27 11 440-3160.
https://www.zomato.com/johannesburg/corner-cafe-glenhazel


Dee-Jays (Sandton)
Dee-Jays provides casual dairy food that is perfect for a breakfast out with the family. Their fishballs are really good and if you need a cake in the Sandton area, they’re the place to go.
Morningview Shopping Centre, 100 South Road, 2196, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 883-2265.
https://www.zomato.com/johannesburg/deejays-deli-morningside.


Market Cafe (Norood Mall)
cholov Yisroel cafe

KosherWorld, Mi Vami Kosher and Chop N Wok (Glenhazel)
1 Long Avenue, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 440 1402.
http://www.kosherworld.co.za/Mivami.aspx & http://www.kosherworld.co.za/ChopandWok.aspx.


Brioche (Glenhazel)
Brioche is a new (as of July 2016) non chalav yisrael (with CY options) dairy place across the street from Kosher World. It's quite fancy and more expensive than Michelos, though still cheap by American standards at ~R15:$1. Their 6 textures of dark chocolate dessert was out of this world.
53 Ridge Ave, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 028 1244/55.

Gelatisimo (Glenhazel)
Across the road from Kosher World, authentic Italian gelato. Chalav Yisroel. Absolutely fantastic.

Michelos (Glenhazel)
Michelos is the second best pizza restaurant. They are very centrally located (in the Jewish area of Glenhazel) and their food is nice. Never go there the night after Pesach because you’ll wait hours but most other times are good, plus they serve chalav yisrael.
17 Northfield Ave, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 885-1500.
https://www.zomato.com/johannesburg/michelos-pizzeria-glenhazel/menu.


Nandos Kosher (Savoy)
Nandos is a large chain of Portuguese chicken restaurants, but there is only one kosher Nandos in South Africa, so be aware that you can’t step into any of them! They serve top notch chicken but be sure to also try their beef burger (and order extra sauce).
553 Louis Botha Ave, Savoy, Johannesburg, 2090, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 885-1496.
https://www.yumbi.com/menu/stores-1285/view/Nandos-Kosher.


Next Door "Non-CY" (Norwood)
Next Door is rated as a top restaurant in Johannesburg, kosher and not, so you know it must be pretty good. It is usually full so booking is highly recommended. While their sushi may not be top class, their pizzas certainly are and, if you’re around in Summer, definitely try their fish braai (barbeque in South African).
80 Grant Ave, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa. Phone: +27 11 728-2577.
https://www.zomato.com/johannesburg/next-door-norwood.


Pie Works (Sandringham)
Their pies (clearly) are the best kosher pies in the country and are perfect if you want to buy some to take home and reheat. Their burgers are delicious and the have a milk side with pizza that is really good. They’re situated on what is known as the Kosher Strip, so any Jew will be able to direct you.
74 George Ave, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa. +27 11 485 2447.
http://www.thepieworks.co.za/.


RTG "Ready to Go" (Norwood)
A fast food place next door to ... Next Door. While they do offer steak and a Chinese menu, the focus is their extensive burger and hot dog menu.

The Deli Store (Sandton)
Reviewed in CBS's TR, as having excellent food for very low prices.
Shop 52, (opposite Woolworths) Morning Glen Shopping Mall Cnr Bowling & Kelvin Road Gallo Manor, Phone: 011-656-3142 / 4915.
Email: info@thedelistore.co.za, http://thedelistore.co.za/menus/main-menu/.


So Sushi (Glenhazel)

Jozi Blue (Glenhazel)
They have some items Cholov Yisroel, which they will serve on disposables on request

Bakeries, Groceries & Ice Cream
Kosher World - http://www.kosherworld.co.za/

Shuls

Hotels with Points near a Shul (Walking Minutes)

Airport Transfer Options
Cab - Uber
Executive Bus - Shuttle from HLA airport to anywhere in Sandton for R80 per person.
Public Bus -
Train - Gautrain from JNB airport is R135-155 depending on destination. Must purchase gold card before for R13.

Major Activities
Apartheid Museum
Flea Market
Gold Reef City - amusement park, along with other African themed attractions (tribal dancing, old "gold mine tour")
Lion Park - see lions from your car up close, pet lion cubs.
Monte Casino - Casino and shopping mall, with cool "outdoor" Tuscan style
Soweto Tour
Pilanesberg Safari- If you can't make it to Kruger for malaria, time or other concerns,  this is a much smaller park with less wildlife, and not as good of an experience, but definitely well worth it. About 2 hours out of Joburg, it can be done in your own vehicle, but will be a lot better with a guided game drive.
Sun City Right outside of Pilansberg
Elephant & Monkey Sanctuary- About an hour out of Joburg. Get close to elephants, touch, feed and ride them. The monkey sanctuary has a massive enclosure with hundreds of various monkeys and lemurs. No feeding or touching, unless one jumps on you. If you do go to Pilansberg, this can be done on the way.

Kruger National Park

Trip Reports
Cbs - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=30280.msg857566#msg857566
shmebeble - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3986.msg742580#msg742580
txtmax4 - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=3986.msg671447#msg671447
Jomaster28 - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=84963.0

Tour Options

Major Activities

Near Kruger:

The Panoramic Route includes a half dozen waterfalls; Lisbon, Horseshoe, Bridal Vail, Mac Mac, Sabie and others; The Potholes, G-d's Window, Wonder View, The Pinnacle, The Three Rondawels and views of the stunning Blyde River Canyon (third largest canyon in the world).

AJK SA trip route planning - forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=33867.msg669659#msg669659.
« Last edited by Wizmanison on May 29, 2018, 02:42:49 PM »

Author Topic: South Africa Master Thread  (Read 77865 times)

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1689
  • Total likes: 77
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1170 on: March 08, 2018, 01:23:50 PM »
I am not a kashrus professional.  But I would have thought that a mashgiach employed by the business, especially if the owner is not shomer torah umitzvos, is not up to standard.  The primary defense against this type of thing is the mashgiach checking the contents of the freezer and refrigerator against the delivery invoices. It does not seem that that was done here, and in fact would be hard for a mashgiach who answers to the proprietor to do effectively.

@moko ?

Offline Saulius

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 292
  • Total likes: 12
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1171 on: March 08, 2018, 03:52:49 PM »
I am not a kashrus professional.  But I would have thought that a mashgiach employed by the business, especially if the owner is not shomer torah umitzvos, is not up to standard.  The primary defense against this type of thing is the mashgiach checking the contents of the freezer and refrigerator against the delivery invoices. It does not seem that that was done here, and in fact would be hard for a mashgiach who answers to the proprietor to do effectively.

@moko ?


Exactly, that's the way it is in most of the world. Plus, the mashgichim should be employed by the Beis Din, and not by the business, and they should be highly knowledgeable, qualified, and competent. The mashgichim should be the only ones with the keys to the freezer.  It's not the first time it happened in Johannesburg.

But, South Africa is a country filled with widespread corruption from the bottom up.


 

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 3563
  • Total likes: 299
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1172 on: March 08, 2018, 04:35:49 PM »
I am not a kashrus professional.  But I would have thought that a mashgiach employed by the business, especially if the owner is not shomer torah umitzvos, is not up to standard.  The primary defense against this type of thing is the mashgiach checking the contents of the freezer and refrigerator against the delivery invoices. It does not seem that that was done here, and in fact would be hard for a mashgiach who answers to the proprietor to do effectively.

@moko ?
In Chicago, most mashgichim are employed by the business, not the kashrus organization.

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 2145
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1173 on: March 08, 2018, 05:52:16 PM »

Exactly, that's the way it is in most of the world. Plus, the mashgichim should be employed by the Beis Din, and not by the business, and they should be highly knowledgeable, qualified, and competent. The mashgichim should be the only ones with the keys to the freezer.
I'll address a couple of things.
1. The on-site Mashgiach in Israel is referred to as a ne'eman Kashrut and in London a shomer Kashrut. The reason is he is not the Mashgiach but rather the on-site employee who is believed for Kashrus purposes. The Mashgiach is the person who  checks up on the Mashgichim 1,2 or even 3 times per week. Some places even have daily checks. That said, when I was in tbe field I was a firm believer that a Mashgiach or ne'eman Kashrut must be employed by the hashgacha. Now in my administrative position, I understand why that can be extremely difficult.
1. If a client is delinquent in payment you still have to pay the Mashgiach. The community won't be very forgiving if you pull hashgacha for financial reasons.
2.clients are looking to cut costs and like to give a Mashgiach other work. We are ok with that (and sometimes even encourage it) as long as it doesn't interfere in his hashgacha tasks. The clients feel they can can only ask one of their own employees to do such work.
3. When I pay Mashgichim directly, I have to upcharge the hourly rate by at least 30% to cover all the insurances, bookkeeping, fica , etc. Very often it's cheaper for a mom and pop restaurant to pay the Mashgiach directly.
I still believe in paying by Mashgichim from the hashgacha but the only way to do it is to demand an average of 2 months wages in escrow and the average wages paid upfront every week in order to make payroll.  I have yet to find a client willing to do this.
Regarding locks, I have found that no matter what some who's not supposed to have it, always ends up with the key or combination.
We use single use zip tie seals that the Mashgichim sign and date in Hebrew.

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 2145
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1174 on: March 08, 2018, 05:55:47 PM »
In Chicago, North America most mashgichim are employed by the business, not the kashrus organization.
our organization is unique and most of our Mashgichim are employed by us. That said i can be very difficult to make payroll when clients are late on payment. You need to have upwards of $500000 in the account at any time to ensure the smooth running of the organization.

Offline Dawie

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 779
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: BLM
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1175 on: March 08, 2018, 06:56:45 PM »

Exactly, that's the way it is in most of the world. Plus, the mashgichim should be employed by the Beis Din, and not by the business, and they should be highly knowledgeable, qualified, and competent. The mashgichim should be the only ones with the keys to the freezer.  It's not the first time it happened in Johannesburg.

But, South Africa is a country filled with widespread corruption from the bottom up.
whats the point of posting that video, pray tell?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 963
  • Total likes: 410
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1176 on: March 08, 2018, 08:10:57 PM »

The mashgichim should be the only ones with the keys to the freezer. 

It is that way in South Africa. Only the Mashgiach had the key to the fridge and freezer. The treif chickens were brought in with the mashgiach on premises, after he had unlocked the freezer.
It's not the first time it happened in Johannesburg.
Are you referring to the cheese from 20 years ago? That was uncovered because of discrepancies with invoices, which you implied they don't check.

But, South Africa is a country filled with widespread corruption from the bottom up.
If you are implying that the UOS is corrupt, that's quite a serious charge. If you want to say they are incompetent, on the heels of this story it would be hard to argue. But to accuse them of corruption on a public forum demands evidence.

The Kashrus department has always impressed observers from outside hechsherim. AFAIK, every single one who provides a hechsher on African products relies entirely on the UOS hechsher. This is an awful story, but similar stories have occurred in other parts of the world under fine hechsherim. While lessons can and will be learned, I don't think this is an indictment on the Beis Din or the kashrus dept.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline Dawie

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 779
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: BLM
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1177 on: March 09, 2018, 10:00:44 AM »
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline Saulius

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 292
  • Total likes: 12
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1178 on: March 09, 2018, 10:04:10 AM »
It is that way in South Africa. Only the Mashgiach had the key to the fridge and freezer. The treif chickens were brought in with the mashgiach on premises, after he had unlocked the freezer.Are you referring to the cheese from 20 years ago? That was uncovered because of discrepancies with invoices, which you implied they don't check.
If you are implying that the UOS is corrupt, that's quite a serious charge. If you want to say they are incompetent, on the heels of this story it would be hard to argue. But to accuse them of corruption on a public forum demands evidence.

The Kashrus department has always impressed observers from outside hechsherim. AFAIK, every single one who provides a hechsher on African products relies entirely on the UOS hechsher. This is an awful story, but similar stories have occurred in other parts of the world under fine hechsherim. While lessons can and will be learned, I don't think this is an indictment on the Beis Din or the kashrus dept.

It could be that only the mashgiach had the keys to fridge and freezer, but the question is was it ever left opened? Was the mashgiach always attentive, pro-active, and on-premises (mashgiach temidi) - or was he also running errands and making deliveries during the day?

Now as far as the forensics, they should be able to tell, i.e. kosher meat cuts come from forequarter cuts, treif comes from hindquarter cuts. One can easily differentiate as long big cuts can only come from the treif hindquarters. One can tell shechita slaughtered birds apart, as they have a different cut at the neck flap, plus the wing tip is cut off. The skin appearance and texture is different because of the salting, and the kosher de-feathering process is different, as kosher chickens cannot be soaked in hot water to open up the pores.

I meant to say that South Africa is a corrupt country, where corruption is rampant and part of everyday life, starting from high up, in every organisation in the government. See a list: http://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/7hqia1/quick_corruption_overview    Economist described SA: "Contracts are awarded through bribes and connections; ruling-party members murder each other over lucrative government jobs; crooks operate with impunity." And unfortunately, in such an environment and society, corruption seeps down everywhere in the business world.

The Beis Din consists of very qualified and well-respected choshove dayanim, and as you wrote: "The Kashrus department has always impressed observers from outside hechsherim." -- That particularly pertains to the shechita under the Beis Din - which I agree, it is the best operation in the world.  However, they have issues to fix -- and in South Africa, it's a challenge, and I hope they will be able to fix everything without getting Zumafied.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 963
  • Total likes: 410
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1179 on: March 09, 2018, 11:15:00 AM »
It could be that only the mashgiach had the keys to fridge and freezer, but the question is was it ever left opened? Was the mashgiach always attentive, pro-active, and on-premises (mashgiach temidi) - or was he also running errands and making deliveries during the day?
I don't believe a mashgiach is allowed to make deliveries. S/he has to remain on premises the entire time the kitchen is open. They are, of course, left open the entire time. I'm fairly certain the treif chickens were never brought into a fridge or freezer, they were brought in straight to the prep area.
Now as far as the forensics, they should be able to tell, i.e. kosher meat cuts come from forequarter cuts, treif comes from hindquarter cuts. One can easily differentiate as long big cuts can only come from the treif hindquarters. One can tell shechita slaughtered birds apart, as they have a different cut at the neck flap, plus the wing tip is cut off. The skin appearance and texture is different because of the salting, and the kosher de-feathering process is different, as kosher chickens cannot be soaked in hot water to open up the pores.
That's exactly how this was uncovered.

I meant to say that South Africa is a corrupt country, where corruption is rampant and part of everyday life, starting from high up, in every organisation in the government. See a list: http://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/7hqia1/quick_corruption_overview    Economist described SA: "Contracts are awarded through bribes and connections; ruling-party members murder each other over lucrative government jobs; crooks operate with impunity." And unfortunately, in such an environment and society, corruption seeps down everywhere in the business world.
That's fair.

The Beis Din consists of very qualified and well-respected choshove dayanim, and as you wrote: "The Kashrus department has always impressed observers from outside hechsherim." -- That particularly pertains to the shechita under the Beis Din - which I agree, it is the best operation in the world.  However, they have issues to fix -- and in South Africa, it's a challenge, and I hope they will be able to fix everything without getting Zumafied.
Agree 100%
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 2145
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1180 on: March 09, 2018, 03:18:06 PM »
If this case is as I understand it, it could happen anywhere. My understanding is that it was caught right away and was dealt with immediately. If my Mashgiach had his back turned and then turned around to discover they tried sneaking in non kosher product, I would also probably terminate hashgacha even if the product was never used.
We had a story in Boston where a Mashgiach called in sick and the proprietor called to notify us at 9am. I told him I'm on my way to open for him and would find a replacement for that day. I got there a half hour later to find he broke the seals on the walk-ins and cooking equipment and had started to prepare to cook. We took the teudah off and asked if he wanted to discuss how to move forward the next day. He started getting mad and that was the end of his hashgacha.

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 9436
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1181 on: March 10, 2018, 02:19:07 PM »
The Beis Din consists of very qualified and well-respected choshove dayanim, and as you wrote: "The Kashrus department has always impressed observers from outside hechsherim." -- That particularly pertains to the shechita under the Beis Din - which I agree, it is the best operation in the world.  However, they have issues to fix -- and in South Africa, it's a challenge, and I hope they will be able to fix everything without getting Zumafied.
Says who?
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 963
  • Total likes: 410
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1182 on: March 10, 2018, 09:02:19 PM »
Says who?
I don't know that it is the best in the world, or even close, but there are rabonim who have been brought down to inspect the shechita who now make a point of eating mehadrin commission meat from South Africa wherever available.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline Dawie

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 779
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: BLM
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1183 on: March 10, 2018, 10:19:01 PM »

Offline Sh18

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Mar 2018
  • Posts: 4
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: South Africa Master Thread
« Reply #1184 on: March 14, 2018, 09:37:15 AM »
I’m going to Africa next week and from my reasrch it seems like that down south the animals are more  Condense at this time of the year so I think I’m gonna be staying in hazyview for three days any recommendations which gate to go in from ?