Judging Ma'aser Recipients.

[Lou Bob]

means that you have to give a ani tzdaka according to what he is used to.
If he eats a fat stake every night that is what you are supposed to give him

ain't nobody eating a fat stake. Bad example.
Maybe try 'steak'

[good sam]

Two things I learned from my father is that if a guy is willing to come up to me and ask for money than he must be in need.

I disagree with this statement.  I think for many, it starts out with a need, but after finding it to be easy and lucrative, continue collecting for decades.

I (in my multitude of sins) have a very hard time giving even a quarter to the career collectors.

[Yehuda57]

Tzedaka is not charity. It is tzedek - just(ice).

Charity is that I make money and I do a big favor and give away what is rightly mine to someone else. I then give myself a pat on the back because I am an amazing dude.

Tzedaka is that G-d directed me the money as a sort of trust- it is His money, not mine - and so I give it to others because that is what G-d wants. I am not separating myself from my hard earned cash, but rather doing what is JUST. 

It is a subtle difference, but with the second attitude you will be doing more good and being more giving. If your ego is out of the equation, you stop calculating and judging. "He needs it more than me. He has a smoking habit he can't kick, he is having trouble making wise decisions and I am lucky enough to be able to help!"

[dudi]

Tzedaka is not charity. It is tzedek - just(ice).

Charity is that I make money and I do a big favor and give away what is rightly mine to someone else. I then give myself a pat on the back because I am an amazing dude.

Tzedaka is that G-d directed me the money as a sort of trust- it is His money, not mine - and so I give it to others because that is what G-d wants. I am not separating myself from my hard earned cash, but rather doing what is JUST. 

It is a subtle difference, but with the second attitude you will be doing more good and being more giving. If your ego is out of the equation, you stop calculating and judging. "He needs it more than me. He has a smoking habit he can't kick, he is having trouble making wise decisions and I am lucky enough to be able to help!"

well said

[sky121]

Two things I learned from my father is that if a guy is willing to come up to me and ask for money than he must be in need.

I disagree. Unfortunately I don't think that is true.


He might be in need but not necessarily of money.
Some people just need help.

[EP123]

What do you consider a luxury? Buying a used clunker vs leasing a new minivan? In that case I dont think that is luxury, some people are not cut out to deal with cars that will always have issues.

As far as maaser goes iirc there are many things you can use maaser for, the chiuv is not to give it to a "poor" person, it is only on purim that you are supposed to give a halachakly poor person.

Maaser can be used for schooling, purchase of communal books or sefarim for a library... There are many things maaser can be used for, and if there are needy people then you can give the maaser to them even if their basics are covered.

If you want to do the best thing for them, buy some popular electronic items, give it to your needy family, tell them you got some crazy closeout and tell them to go sell it online, like this you can gently nudge them into some sort of occupation.

[yehuda S]

If you want to do the best thing for them, buy some popular electronic items, give it to your needy family, tell them you got some crazy closeout and tell them to go sell it online, like this you can gently nudge them into some sort of occupation.

I like this idea 

[yehuda S]

I disagree. Unfortunately I don't think that is true.


He might be in need but not necessarily of money.
Some people just need help.

+10,000,000.9

[yehuda S]

I (in my multitude of sins) have a very hard time giving even a quarter to the career collectors.

Also try not to think about their 40%(?) cut.

[avremie]

I think its hard to know what's a luxury. one person will pull back on $20 shabbos flowers for another its a shalom bayis must, same applies to vacations birthday presents etc.

[AI-TRAVEL]

There is an opinion in the Mishna (R Shimon, aficr we don't pasken that way), that even if someone has money in the bank, yet does not use it, there is a mitzva to give him tzedaka.

You might not understand, and I agree it's infuriating to work yourself to the bone to fund somebody living a higher and easier lifestyle than yourself, but sometimes that's what G-d wants from you. Here's a way to do tzedaka without the immediate return of satisfaction.

Ma'aser is a very abstract chiyuv and I'm sure most rabbis would be very lenient about what you can use it for. The main guidance we have in chazal about prioritizing is Anii Eirecha, if someone in your family has a need, or in your neighborhood, etc.

Sounds like jersey care.

[PlatinumGuy]

Sounds like jersey care.

No, R Shimon didn't say it's right from him to accept the money

[good sam]

Also try not to think about their 40%(?) cut.

Oh, I won't give those guys ever. I'm talking about the people who collect for themselves.

[Drago]

IMO, I'm responsible to not only give the tzedaka, but to ensure it's not being stolen (or misused), b/c the money belongs to ani'em. Since the money is kadosh, you need to treat it in such a manner. And just like donations to the beis hamikdash had to be used in a proper fashion, tzedaka funds need to be treated similarly. Obviously, I can't stalk them to see what they'll do with it, but I can try doing due diligence.

In Israel, I'll find their financial statements to see what kind of overhead they report, and to see where the money is being used.

If I were in the US, and knew the driver was collecting an obscene % for driving the guy around, and that there's additional overhead for the flight/hotel/food, etc, I'd be less likely to give b/c much of it isn't reaching it's intended destination.

And if I'm in a shul, and a young strapping guy comes collecting for his family, and is followed by an 80 year old hunched over man, my sympathies lie w/ the older man, even if both of them may be mis-representing their situation.

But larger donations go to places that I can verify (to the best of my abilities).

[Saver2000]

@Yehuda s
A collector that has ccigarette in his pocket is not any worse that a someone that needs money to buy luxuries. 
And as many others have already stated,  Halachah is that you need to support someone in order that he can live his usual lifestyle.

@dudi
I agree with your dad.  If someone is going door to door to get $1-$5 per person,  he ain't doing it for fun. 
He obviously needs it. 

@drago
What type of research am I require to do? I trust rabbonim.  If they have someone backing them/vouching for them  (E. G.  Kupat ha'ir -  r chaim kanievsky) then it's good enough for me. 

[Drago]

@drago
What type of research am I require to do? I trust rabbonim.  If they have someone backing them/vouching for them  (E. G.  Kupat ha'ir -  r chaim kanievsky) then it's good enough for me. 

That's fine, although keep in mind that they've signed on multiple charities/individuals, so you can choose which ones to donate to based on your preferences/criteria, and still be listening to da'as torah.

(FYI, charities have been known to commit fraud, even w/ a Rav's signature. So I don't find that to be an argument to proper governance. I don't imagine that R. Kanievsky is delving into the financial operations of each charity that he signs on. But I can be mistaken.)

[Saver2000]

That's fine, although keep in mind that they've me to bbigned on multiple charities/individuals, so you can choose which ones to donate to based on your preferences/cria, and still be listening to da'as torah.

I didn't say I give there "bec daas torah said I should".  I said that a rabbi vouching for them is good enough for me to consider it a valid the tzadakah operation.   

(FYI, charities have been known to commit fraud, even w/ a Rav's signature. So I don't find that to be an argument to proper governance. I don't imagine that R. Kanievsky is delving into the financial operations of each charity that he signs on. But I can be mistaken.)

So that was my question.  How much research  am I actually required to do?

If I call them and talk to the CFO,  is that good enough? Do I need see the books? Of yes,  how do I know they aren't withholding some of the books etc. 

That's what I meant by a gadol backing them. I rely on him -  and trust him -  that research was done to ensure that money isn't going to waste (payrolls).

[Drago]

I didn't say I give there "bec daas torah said I should".  I said that a rabbi vouching for them is good enough for me to consider it a valid the tzadakah operation.   
So that was my question.  How much research  am I actually required to do?

If I call them and talk to the CFO,  is that good enough? Do I need see the books? Of yes,  how do I know they aren't withholding some of the books etc. 

That's what I meant by a gadol backing them. I rely on him -  and trust him -  that research was done to ensure that money isn't going to waste (payrolls).

Fair enough.
OOC (out of curiosity), does a letter that a meshulach brings with Rabbanim's signatures hold as much weight with you?

[elikay]

I give my dollar to the guy in Shul as long as he has a seemingly reliable letter, others get a quarter. I don't get collectors to my door. But my attitude is, if all you are giving is a few dollars them why are you being so picky. For larger donations I indeed give to a cause which I respect and trust.
I once witnessed a fellow collecting and when  someone gave him a dollar, he told him that he had already given him once. The fellow responded: Keep it, I don't want Hashem telling me "I gave you already"