Topic Wiki

Partial list of Hand Matzah bakeries sold in the US

Satmar Broadway Zalonim
Pupa Tzeilim
Satmar Rutledge Aronim
Satmar Monroe
Bais Rochel
Satmar Monsey
Charedim
Shatzer
Kerister
Crown Heights
BP Matzo
Montreal
Komemiyut
Lakewood Matzah

Please add prices and were you found it
Also type of Matzah will help

Author Topic: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah  (Read 27292 times)

Offline eyj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #285 on: March 08, 2018, 11:17:21 PM »
I fully agree that the tumult they made there was a choshen mishpat question and not orach chaim.
Choshen Mishpat? I wasn’t aware that any of that particular  matza was ever intended for the consumption of that olam.

Offline aygart

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #286 on: March 08, 2018, 11:20:25 PM »
Choshen Mishpat? I wasn’t aware that any of that particular  matza was ever intended for the consumption of that olam.
Keyword intended.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline eyj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #287 on: March 09, 2018, 01:10:41 AM »
Keyword intended.
Sounds interesting, but probably not much of a choshen mishpat shaylah as far as monetary claims go. Go prove that your matzos are from the miut of the shift that took place after 18 minutes....
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 01:44:54 AM by eyj »

Offline yzj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #288 on: March 09, 2018, 10:14:15 AM »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but can anyone show me an authentic source ( not a contemporary likut Sefer) that the entire process MUST be shut down every 18 minutes? It almost never takes more than 10-12 minutes for a batch of dough to reach the oven. It is simply a hiddur to account for pieces of dough etc. that may be on the equipment and become chometz, making problems with subsequent batches. It is likely that earlier generations went well beyond 18 minutes without a break. (Even going to 22 minutes or more would not seem to pose a problem since tha last batch would not pass through any stage of the equipment more than 18 minutes after the first batch. If you are worried about the Rosh -and the Rosh can’t be literal as the Chazon Ish proves from the Gemara of one who remembers that he left dough in his house- then 18 minutes is probably going to be problematic as well.) So going a bit beyond the hiddur of 18 minutes is certainly not the end of the world and would hardly be a major issue or scandal...

I don’t know the history, but I would guess that 18 minutes goes back to the time that everything was done in the same general work area so there was a very real possibility of the guys doing the aricha coming into contact with some dough from the lisha, hence the idea of pulling the plug every 18 minutes. Today, when there is an assembly line style process, that isn’t a concern, but the 18 minute standard was retained. You could probably go another 4 or 5 minutes without an issue by setting 18 minute timers for each stage of the assembly line. So 22 minutes, although not the usual standard, is probably not the end of the world. Whether the 18 minute shutdown is relevant or not, it’s certainly cant hurt to shorten the process in light of the Rosh, anyhow...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 10:19:14 AM by yzj »

Offline EJB

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #289 on: March 09, 2018, 10:24:55 AM »
Yanover matzas, $1000/lb

Offline aygart

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #290 on: March 09, 2018, 10:27:36 AM »
Sounds interesting, but probably not much of a choshen mishpat shaylah as far as monetary claims go. Go prove that your matzos are from the miut of the shift that took place after 18 minutes....
Lack of proof is only relevant if trying to get money back. They definitely aren't paying the extra amount per pound to need to rely on bitul and sfeikos. They made their own chabura and paid extra to have hiddurim not bdieveds. Can they enforce it? Probably not, but that doesn't make it right from a choshen mishpat viewpoint.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline yzj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #291 on: March 09, 2018, 10:30:02 AM »
According to this article ALL machine matzos, even the mehadrin shemurah matzos rely on 22.5, since they don’t count the time of the lisha:
https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/342/machine-matzos/

“In these bakeries, the first 4 minutes of kneading are not calculated in the “18 minute count” because the halachah states that chimutz (leavening) does not begin if the dough is constantly being worked.  This is what is happening during the kneading and rolling processes; therefore, the 18 minute segment begins when the initial matzoh starts baking.  The entire segment takes 22.5 minutes, which is in compliance with the 22.5 minute mil.  However, each part of the segment lasts no longer than 18 minutes; hence, the bakeries call their matzohs “18 minute matzohs”.  This holds true for both regular (peshutos) and shmura mehadrin machine matzohs.  The only 18 minute machine matzohs that are calculated from the time the flour and water are mixed, as is done in hand matzoh bakeries, are chabura matzohs”

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #292 on: March 09, 2018, 10:33:11 AM »
According to this article ALL machine matzos, even the mehadrin shemurah matzos rely on 22.5, since they don’t count the time of the lisha:
https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/342/machine-matzos/

“In these bakeries, the first 4 minutes of kneading are not calculated in the “18 minute count” because the halachah states that chimutz (leavening) does not begin if the dough is constantly being worked.  This is what is happening during the kneading and rolling processes; therefore, the 18 minute segment begins when the initial matzoh starts baking.  The entire segment takes 22.5 minutes, which is in compliance with the 22.5 minute mil.  However, each part of the segment lasts no longer than 18 minutes; hence, the bakeries call their matzohs “18 minute matzohs”.  This holds true for both regular (peshutos) and shmura mehadrin machine matzohs.  The only 18 minute machine matzohs that are calculated from the time the flour and water are mixed, as is done in hand matzoh bakeries, are chabura matzohs”
No way

Offline eyj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #293 on: March 09, 2018, 10:34:13 AM »
Lack of proof is only relevant if trying to get money back. They definitely aren't paying the extra amount per pound to need to rely on bitul and sfeikos. They made their own chabura and paid extra to have hiddurim not bdieveds. Can they enforce it? Probably not, but that doesn't make it right from a choshen mishpat viewpoint.
I don’t understand. If it was a chaburah then they were on site and they were סבר וקבל.

Offline aygart

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #294 on: March 09, 2018, 10:37:17 AM »
I don’t understand. If it was a chaburah then they were on site and they were סבר וקבל.
Again, I am not talking about a teviah in bais din. At what point did they realize? Would they have been able to arrange to go elsewhere at that point in the season? As a practical matter they would have been backed into a corner at that point. They did not walk away feeling that they got what they paid for and quite understandably so.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #295 on: March 09, 2018, 11:28:22 AM »
Quote is about Machine matzos.
I know

Offline ADG

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #296 on: March 09, 2018, 11:38:40 AM »
im looking to order midal ha'emek matza in Israel (to be delivered in Israel) . Can anyone help me with a contact?


Offline eyj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #297 on: March 09, 2018, 11:38:58 AM »
Again, I am not talking about a teviah in bais din. At what point did they realize? Would they have been able to arrange to go elsewhere at that point in the season? As a practical matter they would have been backed into a corner at that point. They did not walk away feeling that they got what they paid for and quite understandably so.

My chaburah arranged with the matza bakery that we don’t take the batches of matzos towards the end of each run in any case- things get more frenetic at the end of a run and there are inevitably more shehiyos etc. -those matzos get boxed for regular customers. The bakery was happy to accommodate. That should have been a fairly simple solution- I guess they were blindsided and weren’t thinking straight.

Offline eyj

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #298 on: March 09, 2018, 11:42:08 AM »
According to this article ALL machine matzos, even the mehadrin shemurah matzos rely on 22.5, since they don’t count the time of the lisha:
https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/342/machine-matzos/

“In these bakeries, the first 4 minutes of kneading are not calculated in the “18 minute count” because the halachah states that chimutz (leavening) does not begin if the dough is constantly being worked.  This is what is happening during the kneading and rolling processes; therefore, the 18 minute segment begins when the initial matzoh starts baking.  The entire segment takes 22.5 minutes, which is in compliance with the 22.5 minute mil.  However, each part of the segment lasts no longer than 18 minutes; hence, the bakeries call their matzohs “18 minute matzohs”.  This holds true for both regular (peshutos) and shmura mehadrin machine matzohs.  The only 18 minute machine matzohs that are calculated from the time the flour and water are mixed, as is done in hand matzoh bakeries, are chabura matzohs”

Is there any reason for there to be a difference in the standard for hand shemurah or machine, given the current process for both? It’s interesting that people are fine with the machine ( those who eat non - chaburah machine shemurah)  but have a problem when the same standard is applied to hand.

Offline aygart

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Re: How Much Did You Pay For A Pound Of Matzah
« Reply #299 on: March 09, 2018, 11:47:42 AM »
My chaburah arranged with the matza bakery that we don’t take the batches of matzos towards the end of each run in any case- things get more frenetic at the end of a run and there are inevitably more shehiyos etc. -those matzos get boxed for regular customers. The bakery was happy to accommodate. That should have been a fairly simple solution- I guess they were blindsided and weren’t thinking straight.
It is a solution if they know to look for it in advance.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.