Author Topic: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?  (Read 2844 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« on: April 07, 2014, 07:12:20 AM »
Does anyone have info about the possibilities of there being an issue of ribbis and ways of avoiding this?
There is an annoying aunt who keeps giving my kids Israel bonds! ;)

(I have seen in R Bloy's sefer that he generally does not permit borrowing from the state...)

Offline Vosizderneias

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 09:04:36 AM »
If your not chabad, this wont help. But have seen rebbe suggest to people to invest in israeli bonds

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 10:32:35 AM »
Does anyone have info about the possibilities of there being an issue of ribbis and ways of avoiding this?
There is an annoying aunt who keeps giving my kids Israel bonds! ;)

(I have seen in R Bloy's sefer that he generally does not permit borrowing from the state...)
Ths could be my Am Haratzus speaking here but is it possible that there is a Heter Iska in place? Would a Heter Iska even help here?

If your not chabad, this wont help. But have seen rebbe suggest to people to invest in israeli bonds
Source?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 10:57:39 AM »
Ths could be my Am Haratzus speaking here but is it possible that there is a Heter Iska in place? Would a Heter Iska even help here?

Everything is possible, i'm looking for information about all possibilities.
If anything, they may have a heter iska kloli....

Offline Ergel

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 11:02:14 AM »
Everything is possible, i'm looking for information about all possibilities.
If anything, they may have a heter iska kloli....
I'm sure they have a heter iska klali. I never thought about it before. Not geshmak.
Also, you have rav moshe to rely upon. No shibud hagaf on the loveh (the state)
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 11:04:18 AM »
http://www.businesshalacha.com/articles/bond-israel

Rabbi Tzedek took the mike and explained: "The Torah prohibits taking interest from the borrower. However, R' Moshe Feinstein zt"l ruled that there is no violation of ribbis when lending to a corporation, even if Jewish owned, since the Jewish owners do not carry a personal lien and the payment liability is limited to the corporate assets. (Igros Moshe Y.D.II: 63) This would apply also when lending to the government of Israel.
 
Other authorities dispute R. Moshe's leniency, since they view the corporation simply as a partnership of the various Jewish owners, who are considered the borrowers. Despite this, Rav Zvi Pesach Frank zt"l suggests that it might be permissible to take interest from a Jewish government, since there are no defined owners to identify as the borrowers. (Har Zvi Y.D. 126)
 
Most importantly, though, the government of the State of Israel subjects the bonds to a heter Iska. Heter iska, which requires a separate discussion, is a profit-sharing partnership agreement that is generally accepted to allow transactions that might otherwise entail ribbis. Although some authorities question the widespread usage of heter iska, one can rely on it for Israel Bonds in conjunction with the other reasons we mentioned." (Bris Yehuda 7:n66)
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 11:08:31 AM »
Thanks, the bris yehuda says that it is reliable.  :)
In another place he writes that when the state is the lender there is a problem though...

Offline Ergel

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Re: Israel Bonds, Ribis issue?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 11:15:58 AM »
Thanks, the bris yehuda says that it is reliable.  :)
In another place he writes that when the state is the lender there is a problem though...
Of course. Rav moshe's heter only applies to when the loveh is the corporation/has no shibud hagud. The fact that the malveh is a corporation makes no difference
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