Author Topic: Scam Alert Sungames  (Read 278746 times)

Offline DannyNJ

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #585 on: August 28, 2014, 06:19:38 PM »
Watch the 1st min & 20 sec . Even Michael Scott realizes in the end that itís a scam!
3xJOw

Offline yakov116

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #586 on: August 28, 2014, 06:23:11 PM »
Some board. They should cough up the losses if they really gave the go ahead.
People make mistakes are you saying that if they would have had a gain they also get a percent?
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #587 on: August 28, 2014, 06:30:17 PM »
People make mistakes are you saying that if they would have had a gain they also get a percent?
That would depend on what their job description is/how their paycheck is set up.

If they're a fundraiser for an organization, and get commission on all the funds they bring in, I'd assume this is no different.

Offline bubkiz

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #588 on: August 28, 2014, 06:38:01 PM »
People make mistakes are you saying that if they would have had a gain they also get a percent?

There is no way anyone with half a brain can do due diligence on this "deal" and vote to allow a Yeshiva to go ahead with it. If they listened to some guy wax poetic about how its so safe because "you can always dispute the charge" and caused a loss to mamon hekdesh, yes they should cover the losses.

Offline aradisc

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #589 on: August 28, 2014, 06:50:00 PM »
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Yes!

On that note, if anyone needs to reference that short lived blog with names and emails of the scam principals, be in touch. I managed to download the webpage before it went to sleep with the fishes. Don't see a need to recreate it, but feel free to reach out via PM if you could make some use of it.

Offline etech0

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #590 on: August 28, 2014, 08:15:35 PM »
How can you make financial decisions on behalf of an organization if you're "financially unintelligent" ??
In which case you are accusing them of something even worse. All the more reason not to publicize the names!
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline Mountain Man

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #591 on: August 28, 2014, 09:21:11 PM »
Watch the 1st min & 20 sec . Even Michael Scott realizes in the end that itís a scam!
3xJOw

+1. This really has been the most interesting thread I've read in a long time.

I'd like to sound off and say that in my opinion it is absolutely incorrect for any "Kli Kodesh" to go ahead and make investment decisions like this. Most institutions are suffering these days. My wife was just told she can expect her paycheck to be held until after the yomim neoraim. I feel for these institutions. But that is no excuse for having mud for brains (trying to keep it clean).

Getting a real financial education does not come over night. It takes years and years of work. I have a bachelors, masters, cpa, many years of successful investing experience and work within a very large mutual fund company and I still have trouble analyzing risk/reward on investments. What I do know is that decisions to invest donated money should never be taken lightly. I believe there is consensus to that point on this forum.

I don't think these institutions should be outed point blank but on the other hand this needs to end because I don't know how this isn't outright theft of donated money. There seems to be a very clear problem in our community of sheer stupidity which is evidenced by "knowitall102" and that phone message. Again, I believe there is consensus to this on the forum. 

The obvious question is how do you explain to someone who has minimal experience with earning a living or dealing with the outside world that there are certain "rules" like looking both ways before walking into traffic?

Ultimately I believe it is up to the Gedolim to start talking about this but they aren't and because they aren't these issues keep persisting. It really is so disappointing to hear these sad stories of bnei torah falling into these financial traps. It's disappointing because I like to see myself blissfully naive and whenever I hear these kind of stories I have to think twice the next time I write a check.
Quote from: JTZ link=topic=10531.msg1695873
If you never had to eat crow then you lived one boring life.

Offline Dan

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #592 on: August 28, 2014, 09:23:34 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #593 on: August 28, 2014, 09:25:22 PM »
Watch the 1st min & 20 sec . Even Michael Scott realizes in the end that itís a scam!

ftfy
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yakov116

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #594 on: August 28, 2014, 09:26:10 PM »
+1. This really has been the most interesting thread I've read in a long time.

I'd like to sound off and say that in my opinion it is absolutely incorrect for any "Kli Kodesh" to go ahead and make investment decisions like this. Most institutions are suffering these days. My wife was just told she can expect her paycheck to be held until after the yomim neoraim. I feel for these institutions. But that is no excuse for having mud for brains (trying to keep it clean).

Getting a real financial education does not come over night. It takes years and years of work. I have a bachelors, masters, cpa, many years of successful investing experience and work within a very large mutual fund company and I still have trouble analyzing risk/reward on investments. What I do know is that decisions to invest donated money should never be taken lightly. I believe there is consensus to that point on this forum.

I don't think these institutions should be outed point blank but on the other hand this needs to end because I don't know how this isn't outright theft of donated money. There seems to be a very clear problem in our community of sheer stupidity which is evidenced by "knowitall102" and that phone message. Again, I believe there is consensus to this on the forum. 

The obvious question is how do you explain to someone who has minimal experience with earning a living or dealing with the outside world that there are certain "rules" like looking both ways before walking into traffic?

Ultimately I believe it is up to the Gedolim to start talking about this but they aren't and because they aren't these issues keep persisting. It really is so disappointing to hear these sad stories of bnei torah falling into these financial traps. It's disappointing because I like to see myself blissfully naive and whenever I hear these kind of stories I have to think twice the next time I write a check.
Beautifully written Thank you
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline Mountain Man

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #595 on: August 28, 2014, 09:34:52 PM »
Not just frum jews, amish too, http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-26/rich-amish-lured-into-florida-land-investment-scheme (Repost, I know)

This happens pervasively within all "ultra religious groups" usually because of trust or naivety. Ponzi was catering almost exclusively to Catholics.

I remember in December of 2008 when I was taking a Fraud elective in college that my teacher exclaimed there must be a god because the Madoff scandal busted a week before the class. I remember at one point going to her after class saying I was ashamed at how so many Jewish people were duped like this. She went on to say that fraud isn't specific to any ethnicity. She was right. If you look at fraud through the ages it is perpetrated because of opportunity and greed. Religious communities avail themselves to fraud because they are overly trusting and lacking financial education.
Quote from: JTZ link=topic=10531.msg1695873
If you never had to eat crow then you lived one boring life.

Offline Mountain Man

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #596 on: August 28, 2014, 09:37:22 PM »
Not just frum jews, amish too, http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-26/rich-amish-lured-into-florida-land-investment-scheme (Repost, I know)

One more point. The Florida land scheme is older than "Ponzi". Since the 19th century people have been buying "resort" land in Florida only to find malaria infested swamp which is kind of ironic considering they're living in the 19th century  ;D.
Quote from: JTZ link=topic=10531.msg1695873
If you never had to eat crow then you lived one boring life.

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #597 on: August 28, 2014, 10:41:19 PM »
The obvious question is how do you explain to someone who has minimal experience with earning a living or dealing with the outside world that there are certain "rules" like looking both ways before walking into traffic?

Ultimately I believe it is up to the Gedolim to start talking about this but they aren't and because they aren't these issues keep persisting. It really is so disappointing to hear these sad stories of bnei torah falling into these financial traps. It's disappointing because I like to see myself blissfully naive and whenever I hear these kind of stories I have to think twice the next time I write a check.
Well written. I was going to answer your question, but you yourself answered it.

Gedolim speaking about isn't happening right now. The alternative is rectifying this:

Religious communities avail themselves to fraud because they are overly trusting and lacking financial education.

Offline DannyNJ

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #598 on: August 28, 2014, 11:23:30 PM »
ftfy
Thanks Dan for the FTFY! Attached is a screenshot of Michael Scottís planÖ$3,700 investment will become $1,250,000! Itís supposed to be outrageous comedy, but the sad fact is that with Sungame, people were promised returns of 25 times value of investment, which translates to a whopping 2,500% return ! How anyone would fall for this is beyond belief.

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Scam Alert Sungames
« Reply #599 on: August 28, 2014, 11:48:38 PM »
I'm reading all of your comments and some took the liberty of calling Avi
Wachsler a thief, stupid, not worthy of being a rebbe etc.... but perhaps
 you should know that my brother Avi, is anything BUT those things. He is one of the best
 Rabbiem nationwide, and is a straight, super honest person. I don't know
 details enough to say whether it's a scam, a real business or quick
 "money maker" but I do know one fact, yes an absolute fact, Avi did not make
 a single penny from all of this and on the contrary, it's causing him
 unbearable pain that people are hurting.  I am hoping this thing comes
 together and everyone gets their money back and more, but if  indeed it goes
 south, I will know that Avi Wachsler will be able to hold his head up high
 knowing that he was ehrlich and never said anything to fool or mislead
 anyone.

I'm getting ready my popcorn.