Author Topic: Ani Maamin Foundation  (Read 12194 times)

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2014, 12:19:16 PM »
This problem was foreseen and dealt with already. The solution is called chasidus or Toras habaal shem tov.
I think what has strengthened my son's attachment to yiddishkeit is going out and putting tefilin on people and having to talk about mitzvot.  It focuses his emuna down to it's essence.  You do mitzvos because it's G-d's will and they connect you to Him.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2014, 12:22:45 PM »
I think what has strengthened my son's attachment to yiddishkeit is going out and putting tefilin on people and having to talk about mitzvot.  It focuses his emuna down to it's essence.  You do mitzvos because it's G-d's will and they connect you to Him.
No doubt about it, going on Mivtzoim and dealing with other people definitely helped clarify things for me as a Bochur...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline HP58

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2014, 01:08:38 PM »
For the main part you are correct. (Personally I never was comfortable with the organization and the format but thats a separate issue.)
 As with all things, the problem arises when they begin crossing the line. Messing with seder night was the line.
Great.
So no reason to mix in the "Chakirah vs. Mesorah debate, right?
You may argue with the approach, but that's all a question of nuance. IMHO, the general question is, now that there is indisputably a significant number of children who are not being inculcated with emunah properly, do we take a proactive stance or stick our  head in the sand and let them go through life like sheep?
I think the answer is pretty clear.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2014, 01:10:30 PM »
Is there any empirical evidence as to what actually works?

Offline HP58

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2014, 01:13:11 PM »
Is there any empirical evidence as to what actually works?
Not sure about empirical but there definitely is anecdotal.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2014, 01:19:48 PM »
Take a proactive stance but don't change to the chakira method. Its not the method thats not working! If there is an "emuna crisis" today, fixing it does not require introducing a new method of transmission. Just work on improving the tried and true method.
 
Sedernight is the "father" of the mesora method of transmitting emuna, the AMMF has no place introducing harmful changes.

Offline HP58

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2014, 01:23:12 PM »
We seem to be going in circles. I thought we agreed on this:
For the main part you are correct.
IMHO there is a difference between the "chakira" discussed and rejected by (most of) the Acharonim, and the explanations given in these Q&A sessions. The Acharonim were discussing Moreh Nevuchim/Shaar Hayichud style proofs of G-d's existence scientifically and the like. In these Q&A sessions mostly they're just reinforcing the strength of the "mesorah", such as the Ramban of "Ain adam manchil nachalas sheker l'bnoi" etc.
This isn't the chakira method.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2014, 01:25:55 PM »
We seem to be going in circles. I thought we agreed on this:This isn't the chakira method.
its a question of extent.

Offline HP58

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2014, 01:28:24 PM »
its a question of extent.
Elaborate please.
I thought those were two distinct approaches.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2014, 01:41:54 PM »
It is great to allow questions about Emunah.

It is great to teach Mechanchim how to answer those questions.

It is terrible to change the way the Seder Night which is the foundation of the transmission of the Mesorah of Yetzias Metzraim and Hashgacha Pratis, and Matan Torah, into a "proving that the mesorah that I'm transmitting is true" session. Most children don't have a kernel of doubt that you're lying, why put seeds of doubt in their minds.


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2014, 01:48:16 PM »
It is great to allow questions about Emunah.

It is great to teach Mechanchim how to answer those questions.

It is terrible to change the way the Seder Night which is the foundation of the transmission of the Mesorah of Yetzias Metzraim and Hashgacha Pratis, and Matan Torah, into a "proving that the mesorah that I'm transmitting is true" session. Most children don't have a kernel of doubt that you're lying, why put seeds of doubt in their minds.
+1 To that!

Offline ahecht37

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2014, 02:17:34 PM »
are you saying that the AMF is introducing a new approach?
just my first time hearing about them, but that's not what I'm seeing

Offline Chaikel

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2014, 04:14:23 PM »
I think that guys here are missing the point. There always have been two very fundamental approaches to Emuna: "Chakira" and "Mesora." The definition of, and appropriateness of, both have been debated extensively by the Geonim, Reshonim and Achronim.

Over the generations, the Mahalach of Mesora has been accepted; mainly due to the risks of Chakira. This is not the place to get involved in the Chakira vs Mesora debate....
 
The bottom line is, that even the Mesora does not mean "Blind Faith". The AMMF was originally accepted to add a little understanding to the fundamental Emuna transmitted through Mesora. This was deemed acceptable by the maskimim. The AMMF have since evolved to embrace the mahalach of Chakira entirely, to the exclusion and dismissal of the accepted method of transmitting Emuna. This is a terrible danger, because already in the time of the reshonim relying on intellectual arguments was dismissed as risky, K'V for our weak generation.
 
1. Your deep chakiros in their methods is a resounding reason why for close minded Lakewood people it's best to just leave things be. (Do you have any idea what kind of efforts were involved in getting a place for OTD/at risk kids in Lakewood?) The Lakewood mentality is "We don't talk about problems, ergo they don't exist"
2. Emuna isn't not knowing why you are Jewish. So there is no Mesorah method any more. Period. How is Chakia a step back?
3. How you jumped to the conclusion that they are professing Chakira is unclear to me. Discussing Emuna doesn't automatically make it Chakira
are you saying that the AMF is introducing a new approach?
just my first time hearing about them, but that's not what I'm seeing
+1
And I doubt R' Matisyahu would be so pro their method if it was
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Offline HP58

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2014, 08:10:44 PM »
+1 Chaikel. Well said.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Ani Maamin Foundation
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2014, 08:18:01 PM »
1. Your deep chakiros in their methods is a resounding reason why for close minded Lakewood people it's best to just leave things be. (Do you have any idea what kind of efforts were involved in getting a place for OTD/at risk kids in Lakewood?) The Lakewood mentality is "We don't talk about problems, ergo they don't exist"
2. Emuna isn't not knowing why you are Jewish. So there is no Mesorah method any more. Period. How is Chakia a step back?
3. How you jumped to the conclusion that they are professing Chakira is unclear to me. Discussing Emuna doesn't automatically make it Chakira+1
And I doubt R' Matisyahu would be so pro their method if it was

1) I can address the chip on your shoulder about Lakewood in the Lakewood thread, if you're interested.
2) Not sure what you mean, why you are Jewish? Because you were born a Jew. ?
3)Did you actually read the first post in this thread?