Ani Maamin Foundation

[Baruch]

I would say that on an individual level it has gotten better while on a community level it is a continuing problem. (And yes that make sense.)

Yes you are pretty closed minded about this it seems. Or just not exposed to what is going on out there.

I was waiting for the close minded attacks.

Please respond with substance, not with immature close minded attacks.
 How can i be close minded about a subject, that I wrote more than once that I may be wrong about? Close minded means sticking to one point of view no matter what. I practically begged in my post to be educated if I was wrong.

Please educate me - why isn't making it comfortable to go OTD, a likely cause to why OTD has spiraled out of control in the past decade?

[Chaikel]

And for the record, Lakewood has multiple support organizations for troubled youth.

Do you have any idea how many years, and what kind of monstrous efforts that took?
How many failed attempts there were?

And not because of lack of support from rabbanim, but because of the dearth of "askanim" that this town breeds. Everyone has to make his chakiros about every nareshkeit in the world, except emunah.

When the problem actually became too big to ignore, then all of a sudden everyone did what Lakewooders do best. Jump on the band waggon.

sounds like you haven't been here for a while. I suggest you at least come visit before you dismiss Lakewood as an awful place. Basically you don't know anything about the place!

Actually just last week had a DO here with 10 members, and I'm here till the end of the week

[churnbabychurn]

The event that @Chaikel hints to as his basis of lakewood bashing, seems to have to do with somone in lakewood being opposed to some kind of gathering place for OTD children.
Since the details of the proposed plan and its opposition are unknown (and probably fictitious,) why even discuss it.

The facts are that the Kollel and minyan have been operating for many years. With very minimal opposition. (any opposition was focused on location issues)

[peacenlove613]

Did anyone actually hear what changes they are suggesting be done at the sader? I have heard a few of his shiurim in the past and thought they were amazing. Similar style to R Avigdor Miller in rejoice o youth.

[Baruch]

Do you have any idea how many years, and what kind of monstrous efforts that took?
How many failed attempts there were?

And not because of lack of support from rabbanim, but because of the dearth of "askanim" that this town breeds. Everyone has to make his chakiros about every nareshkeit in the world, except emunah.

When the problem actually became too big to ignore, then all of a sudden everyone did what Lakewooders do best. Jump on the band waggon.
Actually just last week had a DO here with 10 members, and I'm here till the end of the week

You obviously hang out with people (person) who hate this place. Maybe get around town a little more, this is a beautiful community, with beautiful people, stop listening to lashon hara.

[Chaikel]

The event that @Chaikel hints to as his basis of lakewood bashing, seems to have to do with somone in lakewood being opposed to some kind of gathering place for OTD children.
Since the details of the proposed plan and its opposition are unknown (and probably fictitious,) why even discuss it.

The facts are that the Kollel and minyan have been operating for many years. With very minimal opposition. (any opposition was focused on location issues)

I see you're new to this town. That explains a lot

[Chaikel]

You obviously hang out with people (person) who hate this place. Maybe get around town a little more, this is a beautiful community, with beautiful people, stop listening to lashon hara.

Never heard a piece of lashon harah. Not sure who you hang around. My opinion is based on first hand experiences with hundreds of people from every walk and corner of Lakewood

[churnbabychurn]

Do you have any idea how many years, and what kind of monstrous efforts that took?
How many failed attempts there were?

And not because of lack of support from rabbanim, but because of the dearth of "askanim" that this town breeds. Everyone has to make his chakiros about every nareshkeit in the world, except emunah.

When the problem actually became too big to ignore, then all of a sudden everyone did what Lakewooders do best. Jump on the band waggon.
Actually just last week had a DO here with 10 members, and I'm here till the end of the week

Ok wtvr, even if there was a time that OTD children were not addressed properly. That doesnt make lakewood a terrible place.

[Chaikel]

Ok wtvr, even if there was a time that OTD children were not addressed properly. That doesnt make lakewood a terrible place.

I didn't say it's the problem, it's the symptom of a larger problem

[churnbabychurn]

I see you're new to this town. That explains a lot

16 years, with close relatives that benefited from the minyan, kollel and more.

[Baruch]

Did anyone actually hear what changes they are suggesting be done at the sader? I have heard a few of his shiurim in the past and thought they were amazing. Similar style to R Avigdor Miller in rejoice o youth.

I love Rabbi Miller's rejoice o youth. The question is if the transmission of the mesorah should be with proofs, or if and when someone feels the need for proofs we can share the proofs with them.

[MarkS]

Im at 7-Eleven now and see some troubled youth. I think im gonna yell at them amd tell them how bad they are so that im not complicit in making them feel loved and accepted.

[Baruch]

Never heard a piece of lashon harah. Not sure who you hang around. My opinion is based on first hand experiences with hundreds of people from every walk and corner of Lakewood

Then your glasses are shaded with hatred. Clean your glasses (attitude), find the spark of Ahavas Yisroel hidden under all your bitterness. It's not healthy to walk around with such hatred.

Your loving Lakewood brother,
Baruch

[Baruch]

Im at 7-Eleven now and see some troubled youth. I think im gonna yell at them amd tell them how bad they are so that im not complicit in making them feel loved and accepted.

very funny. There's a difference between yelling at them and making a network for them.

Even if your point is valid, did it get worse since the attitude changed or not? And if it did get worse, maybe it's time for a reevaluation?

[churnbabychurn]

The Ramban at the end of parashas Bo explains that emuna is acquired through properly observing the mitzvos that bring to zechiras yetzias mitzrayim. This is the avoda of seder night; to properly fulfill the mitzvos of sipur, etc. If done correctly the end result should be Emuna without sfekos.

[peacenlove613]

I love Rabbi Miller's rejoice o youth. The question is if the transmission of the mesorah should be with proofs, or if and when someone feels the need for proofs we can share the proofs with them.

Thank you for getting back on topic.
In the world we live in questions will be asked.  We don't live in a shtetel were people did everything because of what there parents did.

[peacenlove613]

What's wrong with educating ourselves so we can answer our children when they ask questions on emunah

[churnbabychurn]

The topic is, a brain so tzdreit to find something wrong with discussing emuna at the seder

This is disingenuous.
Emuna is discussed, lovingly taught, acted out, is felt and is present at the seder. It is not debated and questioned by the parents.

[notanonymous]

Im at 7-Eleven now and see some troubled youth. I think im gonna yell at them amd tell them how bad they are so that im not complicit in making them feel loved and accepted.

Just missed you.

[churnbabychurn]

What's wrong with educating ourselves so we can answer our children when they ask questions on emunah

Nothing at all! But if we think that transmitting emuna to our children is as simple as having a short list of bullet point responses we are seriously missing the boat!