frum jew in baltimore revealed as a christian missionary

[CountValentine]

You have to understand that for us Jews...

This always seems to be the case whenever we have one of these discussions. I think I have done more than my fair share of trying to understand the Jews point of view.

[Achas Veachas]

This always seems to be the case whenever we have one of these discussions. I think I have done more than my fair share of trying to understand the Jews point of view.

If you can still say 1+1=1 is wrong you obviously haven't done enough

[CountValentine]

If you can still say 1+1=1 is wrong you obviously haven't done enough

I know it is wrong but I understand why you think it is right. 

[Freddie]

This always seems to be the case whenever we have one of these discussions. I think I have done more than my fair share of trying to understand the Jews point of view.

Nobody is accusing you of not doing your "fair share." I'm just pointing out to you why 99% of people on this forum will see things differently than you do. I wasn't trying to change your perspective, just trying to explain to you why the predominant perspective on this issue here is so different than yours. I thought you would find it interesting.

[CountValentine]

I'm just pointing out to you why 99% of people on this forum will see things differently than you do. I wasn't trying to change your perspective, just trying to explain to you why the predominant perspective on this issue here is so different than yours. I thought you would find it interesting.

I agree with you. The only thing I would say is when you refer to it as my view I look at it as the view of most non-Jews.

[Freddie]

I agree with you. The only thing I would say is when you refer to it as my view I look at it as the view of most non-Jews.

I understand that. I don't think your view is idiosyncratic. Indeed, that's why I am pointing it out to you, precisely because it is such a normal view for you to have, you could be surprised by what kind of negative reaction people around here will have.

Hence, I was attempting to bridge the cultural gap by explaining to you why the word "missionary" is so negative to Jews.

(Perhaps I should also do the reverse and tell my coreligionists that the word "missionary" is not automatically understood by most people to be a dirty word.)

[gozalim]

to clarify:
within this circle (frum Jews) the word is borrowed to refer to a specific group within the more general universal mission- those targeting jews

[CountValentine]

Hence, I was attempting to bridge the cultural gap by explaining to you why the word "missionary" is so negative to Jews.

OK why is it so negative?

[henche]

OK why is it so negative?

Because for most of christianty's existence, missionizing to the jews involved burning at the stake, snatching babies from parents,  torture chambers, convert or die ultimatums, etc.

[CountValentine]

Because for most of christianty's existence, missionizing to the jews involved burning at the stake, snatching babies from parents,  torture chambers, convert or die ultimatums, etc.

I guess getting a serious answer is out of the question.

[Satmar Lady]

I guess I'll try.

From your previous post: I look at the main goal of missionary work is to help others. Belonging to one religion and trying to convert someone to another religion does not make any sense.

This may be the reason of all the negativity. If you are really trying to help, why target the Jews - an ethno-religious group? We understand this to indicate that a different motive is at work here, not exactly a sincere desire to help us improve the quality of our personal lives.

[churnbabychurn]

OK why is it so negative?

We don't appreciate other people trying to influence our children and weak against our faith. There is nothing more important to religious jews then our religion, we would die for our faith.
You don't understand why having someone on a mission to influence the children and the weak against our religion is looked upon negatively?!

[CountValentine]

@SL – TY, @Churn – you can make your valid point without the hyperbole.

Not sure why most here feel Jews are being targeted. I get people coming to my door all the time from different religions. They have no idea if I or my neighbors are Jewish.

I know Judaism is not about converting others to it. What is so wrong for another religion trying to get some to convert to their religion? We all feel the religion we follow is the one and only true religion. Wouldn’t everyone be better off if they followed what one believes is the true religion.

[Saver2000]

@SL – TY, @Churn – you can make your valid point without the hyperbole.

Not sure why most here feel Jews are being targeted. I get people coming to my door all the time from different religions. They have no idea if I or my neighbors are Jewish.

I know Judaism is not about converting others to it. What is so wrong for another religion trying to get some to convert to their religion? We all feel the religion we follow is the one and only true religion. Wouldn’t everyone be better off if they followed what one believes is the true religion.

Im not following the conversation,  but based on report in the OP - how would you feel if a similar story happened in your place?

Meaning, if you had an RC community,  with RC events,  with RC churches,  and you find out one day that a member of the community that was participating in all these functions wasn't really RC -  and not only tthat -  he was there to (learn about your religion so he can)  convert RC's to his religion.

[CountValentine]

Im not following the conversation,  but based on report in the OP - how would you feel if a similar story happened in your place?

Meaning, if you had an RC community,  with RC events,  with RC churches,  and you find out one day that a member of the community that was participating in all these functions wasn't really RC -  and not only tthat -  he was there to (learn about your religion so he can)  convert RC's to his religion.

Is this what this guy was doing? I would think there is something wrong (mentally) with the person. The conversation has moved past the OP.

[Satmar Lady]

@SL – TY, @Churn – you can make your valid point without the hyperbole.
@SL – TY, @Churn – you can make your valid point without the hyperbole.

Not sure why most here feel Jews are being targeted. I get people coming to my door all the time from different religions. They have no idea if I or my neighbors are Jewish.

I know Judaism is not about converting others to it. What is so wrong for another religion trying to get some to convert to their religion? We all feel the religion we follow is the one and only true religion. Wouldn’t everyone be better off if they followed what one believes is the true religion.

You're very welcome.
We feel targeted probably because of the large amount of missionaries at work in Israel. They must very well know whom they are trying to convert. But we have no issue with missionaries working with secular non-Jews. On the contrary - we believe that it is actually a favor they are doing them by getting them to believe in God.

Another thought: We Jews view each others as part of one big family. We take this very seriously - we would do anything to help a fellow Jew in need, and would willingly donate of our money, time, effort or even our very own kidney to save a Jew we don't even know, but whom we deem as a virtual brother or sister. Missionary work  to us is like having someone try to influence a family member to cut off ties with you - quite infuriating, wouldn't you agree?

[Moishel]

If you can still say 1+1=1 is wrong you obviously haven't done enough

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

[Achas Veachas]

Not sure why most here feel Jews are being targeted

Romans 1:16

[Achas Veachas]

You're very welcome.
We feel targeted probably because of the large amount of missionaries at work in Israel. They must very well know whom they are trying to convert. But we have no issue with missionaries working with secular non-Jews. On the contrary - we believe that it is actually a favor they are doing them by getting them to believe in God.

Another thought: We Jews view each others as part of one big family. We take this very seriously - we would do anything to help a fellow Jew in need, and would willingly donate of our money, time, effort or even our very own kidney to save a Jew we don't even know, but whom we deem as a virtual brother or sister. Missionary work  to us is like having someone try to influence a family member to cut off ties with you - quite infuriating, wouldn't you agree?

I don't have time to elaborate but I must be Mocheh on your statement regarding irreligious Jews

[Satmar Lady]

I don't have time to elaborate but I must be Mocheh on your statement regarding irreligious Jews

Read again. I was referring to secular non-Jews.