Author Topic: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban  (Read 22201 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #160 on: May 25, 2014, 10:00:27 AM »
Correct. I had a shier Tanye as a Bochur every night, I knew that my Magid Shier's intention wan not to make us Chabad.
Well there ya go...

Frankly it's like saying chabad is trying to convert non-jews to judaism because of the mivtza sheva mitzvos bnei noach.  I'm sure it might happen to a couple folks, but to say that that's the intention is just untrue.

In the interest of intellectual honesty I will comment. (sorry).
There seems to be a very fundamental misunderstanding about basic tenants of the disagreement. I am not taking any sides, just explaining the way I understand things.

The principle opposition to chassidus and chabbad is not about some superficial name "Chabbadsker" or style of dress.
The issue is and always was, the teachings of chabbad and their form of chassidus teachings. What is chassidus for chabbad is not necessarily chassidus for satmar. Misnagdim aside, even most chassidusim do not teach chassidus in its most extreme form like chabbad. They either never held of it, or they believe that in this generation the extreme form of chassidus as taught and emphisised by chabbadskers can potentially lead some astray. (Evedently there is actually a very small minority of chabbadskers who did become elokists/meshichists etc. So the opposition is not unfounded...) 

An average non chabbad chossid today, does not know of, or subscribe to most of the things that missnagdim originally were opposed to. For them indeed "nistachach toras habesht".
Imposing teachings of chassidus that are not inline with the mesora of satmar or others is and was the issue.
Extreme? Spoken like someone who hasn't opened a Tanya is his life. 

Elokists? You make me laugh.  Please show me a non-tzfati like that.  Doesn't exist.  I brought my own bottled water when I went to Tzfas :P
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 10:04:38 AM by Dan »
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #161 on: May 25, 2014, 10:05:54 AM »
"Extreme" was not meant in a negative connotation.
Re elokist, agree! I wasnt implying anything on normal chabbadsker at all.  Just pointing out that the opposition to chassidus eons ago had to do with this issue.

Its obviously helpless to have a normal convo related to opposition to chabbad...

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #162 on: May 25, 2014, 10:12:51 AM »
(Evedently there is actually a very small minority of chabbadskers who did become elokists/meshichists etc. So the opposition is not unfounded...) 

The Elokists/Meshichists are never the ones known for being big Maskilim in Chassiduss...

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #163 on: May 25, 2014, 10:18:07 AM »
The Elokists/Meshichists are never the ones known for being big Maskilim in Chassiduss...
Fine.

The point was that the opposition by satmar was to the study of chabads version chassidus. Not to making them chabad.

Offline henche

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #164 on: May 25, 2014, 10:31:57 AM »
I don't think learning tanya will "make you chabad" any more than learning mussar will make you a litvak.

You underestimate me.  You give me 20 minutes with an ohr yisroel and I will make you so litvish you'll stand in manhattan and tell people to NOT put on teffilin.

ETA: I'll have you walking 15 miles to shuls on simchas torah and then sitting in the corner learning during hakafos.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 10:44:35 AM by henche »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #165 on: May 25, 2014, 10:44:53 AM »
You underestimate me.  You give me 20 minutes with an ohr yisroel and I will make you so litvish you'll stand in manhattan and tell people to NOT put on teffilin.
5 min with an ohr yisroel and you won't be in manhattan period.  :P

Offline Centro

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #166 on: May 25, 2014, 10:59:13 AM »
5 min with an ohr yisroel and you won't be in manhattan period.  :P
Like!

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #167 on: May 25, 2014, 01:23:32 PM »
5 min with an ohr yisroel and you won't be in manhattan period.  :P
  BUT ON THE INTERNET ? :P :P :P
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #168 on: May 25, 2014, 02:25:11 PM »


And remind me if Rav Roth wasn't kicked out of his Rabbanus and came to Belz to apologize.
+1
He was kicked out of Satmar for a reason. And that's because his opinions didn't reflect what the Satmar leadership wanted him to believe in.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #169 on: May 25, 2014, 02:36:53 PM »
Correct. I had a shier Tanye as a Bochur every night,
As did I (See, all Satmars are learning Tanya).

And there's a reason why ilherman and meshugener are not (yet) chabad, while the talmidim of Rav Vecchter became Chabad.

That's what led to that horrible and brutal event (which I'm in no way justifying).

That's all behind it.

Rav Vechter did something not nice;
Satmar bachurim and parents of Rav Vechter's talimidim did something gruesome.
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Offline ilherman

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #170 on: May 25, 2014, 02:38:21 PM »
As did I (See, all Satmars are learning Tanya).

And there's a reason why ilherman and meshugener are not (yet) chabad, while the talmidim of Rav Vecchter became Chabad.

That's what led to that horrible and brutal event (which I'm in no way justifying).

That's all behind it.

Rav Vechter did something not nice;
Satmar bachurim and parents of Rav Vechter's talimidim did something gruesome.
Did we learn in the same Yeshivah?  ;)
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #171 on: May 25, 2014, 02:39:41 PM »
Did we learn in the same Yeshivah?  ;)
No, I learned it privately with my mashgiach.
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Offline ilherman

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #172 on: May 25, 2014, 02:40:41 PM »
No, I learned it privately with my mashgiach.
Yeah, so did I. It was in Monsey.
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #173 on: May 25, 2014, 02:41:21 PM »
Yeah, so did I.
Oh vey, who are you?

ETA: no, not Monsey.  ;D
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #174 on: May 25, 2014, 02:42:58 PM »
Tanya can be learnt many ways.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #175 on: May 25, 2014, 02:43:57 PM »
Tanya can be learnt many ways.
Exactly my point.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2014, 02:44:57 PM »
Listen, I've had really boring Tanya teachers and I've had ones that absolutely blew my mind away.

Again, I'm not familiar with the story at all, but its not possible that that was part of the difference?
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2014, 02:57:53 PM »
Listen, I've had really boring Tanya teachers and I've had ones that absolutely blew my mind away.

Again, I'm not familiar with the story at all, but its not possible that that was part of the difference?
If he had success to turn over bachurim to Chabad, chances are his intentions were not %100 pure.
I'm not that familiar with the story as well, my grandmother still carried my mother at that time (j/k), but don't try to convince yourself he was just an innocent amazing rosh yeshivah.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #178 on: May 25, 2014, 03:26:28 PM »
Listen, I've had really boring Tanya teachers and I've had ones that absolutely blew my mind away.

Again, I'm not familiar with the story at all, but its not possible that that was part of the difference?
Besides for the quality of the delivery, there most probably are differences in the application and understanding of the text and the message between the various mesoras.
I have browsed the sefer tanya myself, it's anything but a simple straight forward sefer...

Offline ilherman

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Re: Chabad Lag B'Omer Parade Ban
« Reply #179 on: May 25, 2014, 03:36:34 PM »
Besides for the quality of the delivery, there most probably are differences in the application and understanding of the text and the message between the various mesoras.
I have browsed the sefer tanya myself, it's anything but a simple straight forward sefer...
Sir, for best results, don't browse the Tanya your self.  :)
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