Author Topic: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?  (Read 23032 times)

Offline lunatic

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2014, 10:21:23 PM »
the Jewish schools are usually non-profit 501c(3) institutions. The families can get a tax deduction. Some pay tuition by cc, so they get points, too.
-1. Do tuition gets you no tax benefits

Offline CS1

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2014, 10:23:42 PM »
-1. Do tuition gets you no tax benefits
YMMV...
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2014, 10:30:27 PM »
How many ppl who have responded to this thread so far are actually involved in Chinuch or Public Education? (IE not just talking out of their @ss.)

And how many of those actually involved actually received any training whatsoever and weren't just thrown into a classroom because they like children?

#Justcurious
Those are infinitely better than those who were just thrown into a classroom because they couldn't find a better job (even if they underwent 'training'...)

Offline lunatic

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2014, 10:31:02 PM »
YMMV...

Hmmmm, maybe my kids are going to the wrong schools

Offline notanonymous

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2014, 10:36:02 PM »
Those are infinitely better than those who were just thrown into a classroom because they couldn't find a better job (even if they underwent 'training'...)
+1
A menahel told me once, that the most important thing he looks for when hiring, is the relationship the potential rebbi has with the boys.  Everything else can be learned, but a natural ability to interact with the boys is necessary.

Offline CS1

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2014, 10:37:41 PM »
Hmmmm, maybe my kids are going to the wrong right schools
FTFY....
actually, the schools with less of the 'charitable' tax-deduction offers/scenarios may actually be the better, high-quality, top Chinuch schools of the USA.
once again depends on the state, location, school size, and ymmv...
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Offline notanonymous

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2014, 10:38:05 PM »
But, like Saver said, all this it OT...

Just read through this thread. 

There was normal conversation going  on about tuition costs. 



Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2014, 10:42:01 PM »
But, like Saver said, all this it OT...


Offline CS1

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2014, 10:44:17 PM »
that's very funny!  A good laugh...  ^ ^
The new "DDF mascot". Did you just make that one now?
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2014, 10:57:21 PM »
That was just the cutest "stop the presses" meme I found on Google...

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2014, 11:20:33 PM »
@achas,  I dont take it personally if someone takes a topic OT.  I just find it annoying.  I guess I'm the only one. 

It's one thing if it happens naturally.  It's something else when a semi-troll feels the need to vent -  he comes out of nowhere and vents his frustrations. 

It's not like this thread  was anyways  dying out,  it just started. 

#ImOut

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2014, 11:33:54 PM »
@achas,  I dont take it personally if someone takes a topic OT.  I just find it annoying.  I guess I'm the only one. 

It's one thing if it happens naturally.  It's something else when a semi-troll feels the need to vent -  he comes out of nowhere and vents his frustrations. 

It's not like this thread  was anyways  dying out,  it just started. 

#ImOut
You are right, it is annoying I was just making light of the situation and it may not have been in place

Offline chevron

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2014, 11:50:09 PM »
The reason I went OT, because there has been much discussion about home schooling as school costs are so high and many questioning the effectiveness of schools

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2014, 12:26:57 AM »
My impression is that MO yeshivas are more professional and better run.  I also think they charge a lot more.  Perhaps because the MO community tends to have fewer children per family, their total tuition bill is still manageable.

Chssidisher yeshivos I think are often really cheap.  Because the community funds are used to run the school, shul, etc.  So when they fund raise, the yeshiva gets its share.  Although in tight times their girls school often gets the short end of the stick.

---------------------------------------
My pet peeve on school funds:

Schools are often top heavy with administrators and staff getting salaries for doing very little. 
There's too much nepotism in hiring for the top posts.  Just because someone's father/grandfather/uncle was a good principal is not a reason to hire him to be principal straight out of kollel with no experience or formal training.    So we end up hiring 2 people to do the job of the good, strong principal who retired.


(Adding to the problem of actually being mechanech the children: Teachers don't easily get fired for incompetence. If a new teacher needs more training and guidance, he should be allowed room to grow.  But one who show incompetence year after year, needs a new profession.  If a teacher has a mean streak he belongs out immediately.)
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Offline chevron

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2014, 01:13:05 AM »
My impression is that MO yeshivas are more professional and better run.  I also think they charge a lot more.  Perhaps because the MO community tends to have fewer children per family, their total tuition bill is still manageable.

Chssidisher yeshivos I think are often really cheap.  Because the community funds are used to run the school, shul, etc.  So when they fund raise, the yeshiva gets its share.  Although in tight times their girls school often gets the short end of the stick.

---------------------------------------
My pet peeve on school funds:

Schools are often top heavy with administrators and staff getting salaries for doing very little. 
There's too much nepotism in hiring for the top posts.  Just because someone's father/grandfather/uncle was a good principal is not a reason to hire him to be principal straight out of kollel with no experience or formal training.    So we end up hiring 2 people to do the job of the good, strong principal who retired.


(Adding to the problem of actually being mechanech the children: Teachers don't easily get fired for incompetence. If a new teacher needs more training and guidance, he should be allowed room to grow.  But one who show incompetence year after year, needs a new profession.  If a teacher has a mean streak he belongs out immediately.)

Or because the MO hadracha is more of a formal schooling system brought over from europe, while the chasidic / litvak etc derech just builds of cheder to yeshiva with no structure.

This was addressed actual by merkaz anash but I dont recall the whole thing, how years ago not everyone could afford a melamed, most went to cheder although sadly a few could not, most did not learn past bar mitzvah.. few who did were either sons of wealthy / rabbanus or were big talmidei chachamim.

Any ways back on topic, I read years ago in WSJ or NYT about a reform temply that used a persons income % to calculate mebership dues, here is an example http://www.beth-israel.org/giving/fair-share

Back OT, on the one hand what many of our great grandfathers toiled for to send their kids to cheder or pay the melamed.. going hungry etc.. But we have lost focus I think and really some yeshivas need to really overhaul.

Offline satturn

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2014, 04:23:21 AM »
If you tell them their tuition will go down from $12K to $6K per kid and that they can directly help fund a much needed scholarship fund with tax-deductible maiser dollars, I think most would respond generously.

I mean if it's true that just ~5% is paying full anyway and the rest have to grovel for a break, what is there to lose?
I work in the financial aid department of a yeshiva- we have a bunch of wealthy parents who ask for financial aid- because they look at it like a business- "it cant hurt to ask for a reduction." We are put in a situation that to reject someone for a reduction outright creates bad blood. so we end up giving them a small "courtesy reduction." The issue with the article is will those people give a extra charity donation? It is not a majority who are like that- but we have 5+ a year out of 100.       

Offline peacenlove613

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2014, 08:52:39 AM »

I work in the financial aid department of a yeshiva- we have a bunch of wealthy parents who ask for financial aid- because they look at it like a business- "it cant hurt to ask for a reduction." We are put in a situation that to reject someone for a reduction outright creates bad blood. so we end up giving them a small "courtesy reduction." The issue with the article is will those people give a extra charity donation? It is not a majority who are like that- but we have 5+ a year out of 100.     
Really? You give parent who can afford it a break?

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2014, 09:14:03 AM »
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
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Offline CS1

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2014, 09:23:36 AM »
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
that's an excellent attitude. If all parents could put that much practicality and effort in, then most schools would be more 'even-handed'.

However, as mentioned earlier in the thread in regard to people who may be able to afford 80 - 90% of full tuition are looking for more breaks, then the total incoming dollars are not enough for the school to meet expenses....
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Why is Jewish Day School tuition so high?
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2014, 09:48:50 AM »
I'm a parent 'who can afford it'.  Many years ago, when we started at our boys yeshiva, we were shown a long list of fees and obligations as part of registration.  We asked, "What do you really expect us to pay?" We were given a fair price, we agreed, and have been getting minor raises ever since. Were we given a 'break'?  Yes- we're not paying the overblown 'subsidize all the non-payers' price.  Are we more than covering the cost of my children? I think we're at least breaking even.
That's basically how I understood it, tuition is overblown, those who 'can't afford' get a discount those who can afford to pay their own kids tuition get a small break (i.e. they pay the 'real' uninflated tuition price) and those of us who are lucky to be able to help out a little more are expected to put in their fair share in helping the school run...