Author Topic: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute (Read 8528 times)

EP123 · « **on:** May 23, 2014, 11:05:40 AM »

Daynim Mumchim:

I would love to hear peoples opinion on this and what you think is the right thing to do.

I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake, the seller was selling a $450 item for $150, I went ahead and bought a few of them.

Seller marks order as shipped but when it comes I see that he just shipped one of the item. I emailed them asking where the other items are. The guy emails me back with a Jewish sounding name. He says it was a price mistake. So I tell him to refund for the ones that he did not ship. He tells me that if I send back the one that I got he will give me a full refund. I told him I will not send it back, it is in use.

So here is my question for you all:

1. Seller was very (very) unprofessional in his correspondence to me, I want to leave bad feedback but I googled their info and it is a Jewish heimishe company (hungarian), which right away explained the lack of professionalism. I know that bad feedback will hurt them but I feel they rightfully deserve it.

2. I need a refund for the ones that did not ship, should I do a credit card dispute which I know will hurt them, or file an A-Z claim which will also hurt them? I tried working it out but seller refuses to refund unless I send back the one I received.

This seller violated a bunch of Amazon Seller Rules (marking all as shipped when only shipping one, not refunding when he did not fulfill.)

What would you do in this case? File A-Z claim / dispute and leave bad feedback? I feel bad it is Jewish company and do not want them getting shut down or hurt, but they really suck.

DovtheBear · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2014, 11:10:27 AM »

Quote from: EP123 on May 23, 2014, 11:05:40 AM

Daynim Mumchim:

I would love to hear peoples opinion on this and what you think is the right thing to do.

I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake, the seller was selling a $450 item for $150, I went ahead and bought a few of them.

Seller marks order as shipped but when it comes I see that he just shipped one of the item. I emailed them asking where the other items are. The guy emails me back with a Jewish sounding name. He says it was a price mistake. So I tell him to refund for the ones that he did not ship. He tells me that if I send back the one that I got he will give me a full refund. I told him I will not send it back, it is in use.

So here is my question for you all:

1. Seller was very (very) unprofessional in his correspondence to me, I want to leave bad feedback but I googled their info and it is a Jewish heimishe company (hungarian), which right away explained the lack of professionalism. I know that bad feedback will hurt them but I feel they rightfully deserve it.

2. I need a refund for the ones that did not ship, should I do a credit card dispute which I know will hurt them, or file an A-Z claim which will also hurt them? I tried working it out but seller refuses to refund unless I send back the one I received.

This seller violated a bunch of Amazon Seller Rules (marking all as shipped when only shipping one, not refunding when he did not fulfill.)

What would you do in this case? File A-Z claim / dispute and leave bad feedback? I feel bad it is Jewish company and do not want them getting shut down or hurt, but they really suck.

Umm, return the item? I think that's what I would do.

Centro · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2014, 11:12:59 AM »

Quote from: EP123 on May 23, 2014, 11:05:40 AM

Daynim Mumchim:

I would love to hear peoples opinion on this and what you think is the right thing to do.

I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake, the seller was selling a $450 item for $150, I went ahead and bought a few of them.

Seller marks order as shipped but when it comes I see that he just shipped one of the item. I emailed them asking where the other items are. The guy emails me back with a Jewish sounding name. He says it was a price mistake. So I tell him to refund for the ones that he did not ship. He tells me that if I send back the one that I got he will give me a full refund. I told him I will not send it back, it is in use.

So here is my question for you all:

1. Seller was very (very) unprofessional in his correspondence to me, I want to leave bad feedback but I googled their info and it is a Jewish heimishe company (hungarian), which right away explained the lack of professionalism. I know that bad feedback will hurt them but I feel they rightfully deserve it.

2. I need a refund for the ones that did not ship, should I do a credit card dispute which I know will hurt them, or file an A-Z claim which will also hurt them? I tried working it out but seller refuses to refund unless I send back the one I received.

This seller violated a bunch of Amazon Seller Rules (marking all as shipped when only shipping one, not refunding when he did not fulfill.)

What would you do in this case? File A-Z claim / dispute and leave bad feedback? I feel bad it is Jewish company and do not want them getting shut down or hurt, but they really suck.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2014, 11:20:18 AM »

Negative feedback can be removed. If you are not getting dealt with properly, leave the negative feedback, and you will likely get a phone call if it bothers them. Then you can remove the feedback if they sort it out.

If you leave feedback AND open an A-Z claim, Amazon will likely remove them from that listing - though they won't get shut down by any stretch.

But I would return the one you did get, if they give you a shipping label.

EP123 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:34:11 PM »

This is not an item I can return easily, it is the equivalent of returning a lightbulb which I am using already, I will not go and unscrew the lightbulb and be in the dark.

Even if it was unused why should I return it? They owe me product or monrey, I owe them nothing, they need to refund for what they did not ship.

chucksterace · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:38:31 PM »

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business. If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do. Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but that is the game they play when going into the business world. You win some, you lose some. Its part of running a business.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:41:59 PM »

Quote from: EP123 on May 23, 2014, 12:34:11 PM

This is not an item I can return easily, it is the equivalent of returning a lightbulb which I am using already, I will not go and unscrew the lightbulb and be in the dark.

Even if it was unused why should I return it? They owe me product or money, I owe them nothing, they need to refund for what they did not ship.

They do need to refund the two. No question.

As to shipping back a used item, if they want the used item, that's up to them. You are entitled to keep it and not return it, but you seemed to want to do what you can to mitigate their losses as it was a price mistake. If you don't, then by all means, keep the item.

A3 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:44:21 PM »

Quote from: chucksterace on May 23, 2014, 12:38:31 PM

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business. If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do. Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but that is the game they play when going into the business world. You win some, you lose some. Its part of running a business.

O.T. Happy Birthday.

ilherman · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:47:44 PM »

I have a different issue with a Amazon seller, where did you figure out in your case that the guy is Hungarian? I wanna try to figure it out as well, it might help a lot. And if you have info on how to figure out who the Polish sellers are I would appreciate that as well.

mendeld · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:48:50 PM »

Ask your Rov.

You should probably pay them the full price for the one they sent you, as you can not return it and it was an obvious mistake, pay them full price for the remanding order, if you still want it and give them a high rating.

They just made a mistake and were upset you took advantage of them.

You probably know in your heart that is the right thing to do. Think of the lesson your children would learn from this!

zale · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:54:16 PM »

Quote from: ilherman on May 23, 2014, 12:47:44 PM

I have a different issue with a Amazon seller, where did you figure out in your case that the guy is Hungarian? I wanna try to figure it out as well, it might help a lot. And if you have info on how to figure out who the Polish sellers are I would appreciate that as well.

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but it's easy to figure out a Hungarian ("ungarishe") business.

Like with all groups, you have the really honest ones and the really dishonest ones. B&H and Adorama are both owned by Ungarishe, and they consistently rank #1 in customer service. Unfortunately, the dishonest ungarishe businesses are at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, thus easy to spot.

zale · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2014, 12:58:37 PM »

Quote from: mendeld on May 23, 2014, 12:48:50 PM

Ask your Rov.

You should probably pay them the full price for the one they sent you, as you can not return it and it was an obvious mistake, pay them full price for the remanding order, if you still want it and give them a high rating.

They just made a mistake and were upset you took advantage of them.

You probably know in your heart that is the right thing to do. Think of the lesson your children would learn from this!

I don't think it is necessary to ask a Rov. When they agreed to sell on Amazon, they agreed to abide by the T&C of Amazon and are bound by it. Chat with Amazon or call them and see what they suggest.

Centro · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:01:45 PM »

Some ppl would just kill others for a few bucks just because they can.

lubaby · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:02:24 PM »

Quote from: zale on May 23, 2014, 12:54:16 PM

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but it's easy to figure out a Hungarian ("ungarishe") business.

Like with all groups, you have the really honest ones and the really dishonest ones. B&H and Adorama are both owned by Ungarishe, and they consistently rank #1 in customer service. Unfortunately, the dishonest ungarishe businesses are at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, thus easy to spot.

Adorama is known for not honoring price mistakes and cancelling all orders before they ship.

zale · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:07:29 PM »

Quote from: lubaby on May 23, 2014, 01:02:24 PM

Adorama is known for not honoring price mistakes and cancelling all orders before they ship.

Walmart is too, so what?

It's not dishonest not to honor a price mistake.

aygart · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:07:50 PM »

What is their response when you tell them that you are considering a claim through Amazon?
Imho, he would have had every right to cancel the order, but did not do so. If the order was at 150 and he shipped it knowing that there was a price mistake he accepted the terms of the sale for that item. He did not have any right to unilaterally change the price.

ckmk47 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:08:52 PM »

Quote from: mendeld on May 23, 2014, 12:48:50 PM

Ask your Rov.

You should probably pay them the full price for the one they sent you, as you can not return it and it was an obvious mistake, pay them full price for the remanding order, if you still want it and give them a high rating.

They just made a mistake and were upset you took advantage of them.

You probably know in your heart that is the right thing to do. Think of the lesson your children would learn from this!

-1

You took advantage of a price mistake. Ask a rov, check your ethics meter, this is where you have responsibility.

He is selling on Amazon. He has to abide by their rules. Do they have a 'price mistake' clause? If not, he's required to send everything he sold.
He didn't. He lied about what he shipped. He not only didn't send what he got paid for and said he shipped, but he's refusing to send a refund for them!

Being nasty and unprofessional is not against the law or Amazon's T&C.

You can (a) insist he send you the other items you paid for.
(b) You can be nice enough to allow the sale of the unshipped items to be cancelled. He then must send you your refund promptly.
(c)You can go waaay beyond your obligations and return the shipped item, so the seller has no loss (except fees, if any) on this sale.

Since (c) is not your choice, because it's impractical or whatever reason, you need to communicate to the seller what you want from him. It sounds like you want choice (b).
You could point out to the seller that Amazon might back you if you wanted choice (a). Threaten him with going to Amazon to resolve the dispute. See if that shakes your refund loose. But I would (probably check with my Rav then) dispute with Amazon or at minimum give them a bad review.

ayman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:10:47 PM »

Def would ask a posek, mumcheh in choshen mishpat.

mendeld · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:11:22 PM »

Quote from: zale on May 23, 2014, 12:58:37 PM

I don't think it is necessary to ask a Rov. When they agreed to sell on Amazon, they agreed to abide by the T&C of Amazon and are bound by it. Chat with Amazon or call them and see what they suggest.

All our actions should be governed by Halacha (including making fun of Ungarishe

). So if EP123 has a question of what to do, the right "Forum" to ask is a Rov.

zale · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2014, 01:43:54 PM »

Quote from: mendeld on May 23, 2014, 01:11:22 PM

All our actions should be governed by Halacha (including making fun of Ungarishe ). So if EP123 has a question of what to do, the right "Forum" to ask is a Rov.

Aha, so you mean a Rov can override Amazon's T&C? If Amazon says they need to issue a refund, a Rov can say they don't?

My point was, if Amazon has clear T&C on this matter, since the seller and buyer both agreed to be bound by those T&C, Halacha defers to those T&C. Find me an instance where that is not the case.

If there were no Amazon T&C, or if an Amazon Rep says there is no clear terms, I would concur with you about asking a Rov.