Author Topic: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute  (Read 4639 times)

Offline ckmk47

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2014, 02:34:57 PM »
He obviously shipped that one before he realized the price mistake.
No.  He wrote that he shipped all of them.  But he shipped only 1.  So he sent 1 knowing of the price mistake.  Instead of cancelling the whole thing, he wants to keep all the money for 1 of them.  That would be like selling it at full price.  But EP123 only bought it because it was such a good buy. He didn't agree to buy it at full price.

Offline mendeld

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2014, 02:38:47 PM »
No.  He wrote that he shipped all of them.  But he shipped only 1.  So he sent 1 knowing of the price mistake.  Instead of cancelling the whole thing, he wants to keep all the money for 1 of them.  That would be like selling it at full price.  But EP123 only bought it because it was such a good buy. He didn't agree to buy it at full price.
It was obviously a mistake. EP123 wrote in the initial post: "I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake ...".

Offline ckmk47

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2014, 02:42:29 PM »
It was obviously a mistake. EP123 wrote in the initial post: "I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake ...".
There are so many things on Amazon and ebay that have a price not in line with everyone else.  I always worry it's defective merchandise, but that doesn't stop me from buying it.  Maybe it is a price mistake sometimes.  Then they should cancel the order.  Not lie about shipping and keep his money to cover their costs.
Once they shipped, or claimed to, they accepted his money on the terms that he paid it.  $150 each.

Offline mendeld

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2014, 02:45:38 PM »
I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business. If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do. Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but that is the game they play when going into the business world. You win some, you lose some. Its part of running a business.
Not the Torah view! I suggest you discuss with your Rov/Mashgiach/Mashpia/Rosh Yeshiva. I doubt they would agree with you, especially in this situation.

Offline shmebeble

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2014, 03:05:32 PM »
There are so many things on Amazon and ebay that have a price not in line with everyone else.  I always worry it's defective merchandise, but that doesn't stop me from buying it.  Maybe it is a price mistake sometimes.  Then they should cancel the order.  Not lie about shipping and keep his money to cover their costs.
Once they shipped, or claimed to, they accepted his money on the terms that he paid it.  $150 each.
Their wrongdoing does not make your (or his action in this case) right. Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts make a right. Come on

Offline aygart

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2014, 03:21:05 PM »
Not the Torah view! I suggest you discuss with your Rov/Mashgiach/Mashpia/Rosh Yeshiva. I doubt they would agree with you, especially in this situation.
source?
In halacha the sake on Amazon is not a kinyan, neither is his accepting the money. Once he ships it knowing the sale price and the buyer makes a kinyan it is his. Since he knew the mistake before shipping it is not taos. Nothing gives the seller the right to the extra 300. The buyer was admittedly taking advantage of the situation, but the seller outright stole the 300.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2014, 03:30:20 PM »
Not the Torah view! I suggest you discuss with your Rov/Mashgiach/Mashpia/Rosh Yeshiva. I doubt they would agree with you, especially in this situation.
source?
In halacha the sake on Amazon is not a kinyan, neither is his accepting the money. Once he ships it knowing the sale price and the buyer makes a kinyan it is his. Since he knew the mistake before shipping it is not taos. Nothing gives the seller the right to the extra 300. The buyer was admittedly taking advantage of the situation, but the seller outright stole the 300.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline shmebeble

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2014, 03:43:38 PM »
source?
In halacha the sake on Amazon is not a kinyan, neither is his accepting the money. Once he ships it knowing the sale price and the buyer makes a kinyan it is his. Since he knew the mistake before shipping it is not taos. Nothing gives the seller the right to the extra 300. The buyer was admittedly taking advantage of the situation, but the seller outright stole the 300.

Legally, the seller is holding money that does not belong to him.
In any case, we do not know when the owner recognized his mistake. We should get him onto the forums to argue his side of the story.

Offline aygart

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2014, 03:49:36 PM »
Legally, the seller is holding money that does not belong to him.
In any case, we do not know when the owner recognized his mistake. We should get him onto the forums to argue his side of the story.
until seeing any reason to assume otherwise I am assuming that he realized it when he shipped 1 instead of 3. Of course it our possible that he stood not realize the quantity, but it does not seem like it is a mistake of a single one marked as a multi pack so that is unlikely.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline doodley

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2014, 03:55:32 PM »
being that they're being jerks about refunding the orders that they didn't deliver  and claiming they're not gonna refund it unless you ship it back which obviously they cant do bec then they would be stealing and you can take em to small claims court or take it up with amazon or the cc company  i wouldn't return it   they made a mistake they could just send you a email apologizing why they wont send out the rest of them but once they're trying to threaten you with the refund you shouldn't give in     they wanna play hardball   play right back             
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 03:59:49 PM by doodley »

Offline mendeld

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2014, 04:01:25 PM »
source?
In halacha the sake on Amazon is not a kinyan, neither is his accepting the money. Once he ships it knowing the sale price and the buyer makes a kinyan it is his. Since he knew the mistake before shipping it is not taos. Nothing gives the seller the right to the extra 300. The buyer was admittedly taking advantage of the situation, but the seller outright stole the 300.
Not the Torah view regarding:

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business.
No, it is a Jewish business.

If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do.
No, you do what Torah tells you to do.

Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but ...
No buts, you don't justify hurting another Yid unless the Torah tells you that it is justified.

In cases like this, you need to speak to a Rov.

Regarding what you write about a kinyan; do you have Smicha Yodin Yodin on Choshen Mishpat with Shimush? If not, the question should be asked of a Rov who does.

There are other Halachic issues here in addition to those you mention. 

Also, you don't know that he knew about the mistake before shipping. If he knew, he might not have shipped and returned the money.

A Rov may argue that he isn't 'stealing' $300. He is taking $450 for something that is worth $450 and which both sides agree that the 3 for $450 was a mistake. The buyer thought he would get away with the mistake. He didn't. The seller caught on that he made a mistake. He can always return the item and get a refund. Maybe he shouldn't have opened it until it was resolved.

Offline zale

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2014, 04:14:36 PM »
Not the Torah view regarding:

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business.
No, it is a Jewish business.

If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do.
No, you do what Torah tells you to do.

Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but ...
No buts, you don't justify hurting another Yid unless the Torah tells you that it is justified.

In cases like this, you need to speak to a Rov.

Regarding what you write about a kinyan; do you have Smicha Yodin Yodin on Choshen Mishpat with Shimush? If not, the question should be asked of a Rov who does.

There are other Halachic issues here in addition to those you mention. 

Also, you don't know that he knew about the mistake before shipping. If he knew, he might not have shipped and returned the money.

A Rov may argue that he isn't 'stealing' $300. He is taking $450 for something that is worth $450 and which both sides agree that the 3 for $450 was a mistake. The buyer thought he would get away with the mistake. He didn't. The seller caught on that he made a mistake. He can always return the item and get a refund. Maybe he shouldn't have opened it until it was resolved.

No offense my friend, but you sound like a Chassid Shoiteh.

Go ask your Rov if you are being Oiver on Bittul Torah when you spend time posting here.

Offline mendeld

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2014, 04:32:25 PM »
No offense my friend, but you sound like a Chassid Shoiteh.

Go ask your Rov if you are being Oiver on Bittul Torah when you spend time posting here.

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but it's easy to figure out a Hungarian ("ungarishe") business.


Do you mean an Ungarishe Chassid Shoiteh :D.

Sorry that the thought of asking a Rov is so upsetting. Didn't mean to upset you.

Offline henche

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2014, 04:41:23 PM »
Daynim Mumchim:

I would love to hear peoples opinion on this and what you think is the right thing to do.

I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake, the seller was selling a $450 item for $150, I went ahead and bought a few of them.

Seller marks order as shipped but when it comes I see that he just shipped one of the item. I emailed them asking where the other items are. The guy emails me back with a Jewish sounding name. He says it was a price mistake. So I tell him to refund for the ones that he did not ship. He tells me that if I send back the one that I got he will give me a full refund. I told him I will not send it back, it is in use.

So here is my question for you all:

1. Seller was very (very) unprofessional in his correspondence to me, I want to leave bad feedback but I googled their info and it is a Jewish heimishe company (hungarian), which right away explained the lack of professionalism. I know that bad feedback will hurt them but I feel they rightfully deserve it.

2. I need a refund for the ones that did not ship, should I do a credit card dispute which I know will hurt them, or file an A-Z claim which will also hurt them? I tried working it out but seller refuses to refund unless I send back the one I received.

This seller violated a bunch of Amazon Seller Rules (marking all as shipped when only shipping one, not refunding when he did not fulfill.)

What would you do in this case? File A-Z claim / dispute and leave bad feedback? I feel bad it is Jewish company and do not want them getting shut down or hurt, but they really suck.

I would ask him for a shipping label to send it back with, and send it back for a refund.

Offline Tzadik Nistar

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Re: What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2014, 06:07:45 PM »
-100000000000000000000
There are regularly items on Amazon going for well below half of their retail prices that are not mistakes. The recourse is to cancel the order. When someone buys an item that looks like a price mistake they should do so assuming that it will be canceled but will place the order in case it if a clearance or the like. There is no excuse for the seller to bill for higher than the sake price if what he shipped.
With Amazon it's very hard to cancel a order so that's probably why he didn't cancel.