What would you do? Amazon Seller Dispute

[mendeld]

source?
In halacha the sake on Amazon is not a kinyan, neither is his accepting the money. Once he ships it knowing the sale price and the buyer makes a kinyan it is his. Since he knew the mistake before shipping it is not taos. Nothing gives the seller the right to the extra 300. The buyer was admittedly taking advantage of the situation, but the seller outright stole the 300.

Not the Torah view regarding:

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business.
No, it is a Jewish business.

If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do.
No, you do what Torah tells you to do.

Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but ...
No buts, you don't justify hurting another Yid unless the Torah tells you that it is justified.

In cases like this, you need to speak to a Rov.

Regarding what you write about a kinyan; do you have Smicha Yodin Yodin on Choshen Mishpat with Shimush? If not, the question should be asked of a Rov who does.

There are other Halachic issues here in addition to those you mention. 

Also, you don't know that he knew about the mistake before shipping. If he knew, he might not have shipped and returned the money.

A Rov may argue that he isn't 'stealing' $300. He is taking $450 for something that is worth $450 and which both sides agree that the 3 for $450 was a mistake. The buyer thought he would get away with the mistake. He didn't. The seller caught on that he made a mistake. He can always return the item and get a refund. Maybe he shouldn't have opened it until it was resolved.

[zale]

Not the Torah view regarding:

I understand that the business is Jewish, but they are in the end just that, a Business.
No, it is a Jewish business.

If they don't keep up to their word then you do what you need to do.
No, you do what Torah tells you to do.

Im sorry that I might hurt a fellow Jew, but ...
No buts, you don't justify hurting another Yid unless the Torah tells you that it is justified.

In cases like this, you need to speak to a Rov.

Regarding what you write about a kinyan; do you have Smicha Yodin Yodin on Choshen Mishpat with Shimush? If not, the question should be asked of a Rov who does.

There are other Halachic issues here in addition to those you mention. 

Also, you don't know that he knew about the mistake before shipping. If he knew, he might not have shipped and returned the money.

A Rov may argue that he isn't 'stealing' $300. He is taking $450 for something that is worth $450 and which both sides agree that the 3 for $450 was a mistake. The buyer thought he would get away with the mistake. He didn't. The seller caught on that he made a mistake. He can always return the item and get a refund. Maybe he shouldn't have opened it until it was resolved.

No offense my friend, but you sound like a Chassid Shoiteh.

Go ask your Rov if you are being Oiver on Bittul Torah when you spend time posting here.

[mendeld]

No offense my friend, but you sound like a Chassid Shoiteh.

Go ask your Rov if you are being Oiver on Bittul Torah when you spend time posting here.

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but it's easy to figure out a Hungarian ("ungarishe") business.

Do you mean an Ungarishe Chassid Shoiteh .

Sorry that the thought of asking a Rov is so upsetting. Didn't mean to upset you.

[henche]

Daynim Mumchim:

I would love to hear peoples opinion on this and what you think is the right thing to do.

I found an item on Amazon (3rd party seller) which was obviously a price mistake, the seller was selling a $450 item for $150, I went ahead and bought a few of them.

Seller marks order as shipped but when it comes I see that he just shipped one of the item. I emailed them asking where the other items are. The guy emails me back with a Jewish sounding name. He says it was a price mistake. So I tell him to refund for the ones that he did not ship. He tells me that if I send back the one that I got he will give me a full refund. I told him I will not send it back, it is in use.

So here is my question for you all:

1. Seller was very (very) unprofessional in his correspondence to me, I want to leave bad feedback but I googled their info and it is a Jewish heimishe company (hungarian), which right away explained the lack of professionalism. I know that bad feedback will hurt them but I feel they rightfully deserve it.

2. I need a refund for the ones that did not ship, should I do a credit card dispute which I know will hurt them, or file an A-Z claim which will also hurt them? I tried working it out but seller refuses to refund unless I send back the one I received.

This seller violated a bunch of Amazon Seller Rules (marking all as shipped when only shipping one, not refunding when he did not fulfill.)

What would you do in this case? File A-Z claim / dispute and leave bad feedback? I feel bad it is Jewish company and do not want them getting shut down or hurt, but they really suck.

I would ask him for a shipping label to send it back with, and send it back for a refund.

[Tzadik Nistar]

-100000000000000000000
There are regularly items on Amazon going for well below half of their retail prices that are not mistakes. The recourse is to cancel the order. When someone buys an item that looks like a price mistake they should do so assuming that it will be canceled but will place the order in case it if a clearance or the like. There is no excuse for the seller to bill for higher than the sake price if what he shipped.

With Amazon it's very hard to cancel a order so that's probably why he didn't cancel.

[aygart]

I would ask him for a shipping label to send it back with, and send it back for a refund.

at the end of the day I would probably either do that or try to work out a price for it

[Yehuda57]

With Amazon it's very hard to cancel a order so that's probably why he didn't cancel.

If by "very hard" you mean make two mouse clicks, you are correct.

[Tzadik Nistar]

If by "very hard" you mean make two mouse clicks, you are correct.

very hard means, Amazon will shut you for cancelling to many orders

[aygart]

With Amazon it's very hard to cancel a order so that's probably why he didn't cancel.

so steal?

[ckmk47]

very hard means, Amazon will shut you for cancelling to many orders

So when you make a mistake, cancel it.  And don't keep making mistakes, so it doesn't happen too often for Amazon's liking.

[Yehuda57]

very hard means, Amazon will shut you for cancelling to many orders

Firstly, that's a lot of cancelations. If you're up to that rate, you likely have bigger issues than this one price mistake.

Secondly, you can mark it as shipped and then refund it. It counts as a return, not a cancelation - AFAIK.

[EP123]

To clarify, I knew this was a good deal but not necessarily a mistake. There are many sellers who just want to get rid of the 1-2 items that are laying around and just choose the lowest suggested price.

If this was a mistake on their part they should of cancelled the order. Once they "shipped" the order, the money is then released to them and they went into contract to me for the agreed upon price.

At this point they are stealing by not honoring the contract, I gave money for more then one item, but they only shipped one. They should talk to a Rov to see what kind of tikun they can have for breaking a contract and trying to steal money.

I thank everyone for your opinions, I will just open a credit card dispute, but will not leave bad feedback. I just need my money back, but being that I am a frum jew (try to be) I will not leave bad feedback even though they deserve it. They have been getting bad feedback from other customers for their hungarian customer service and it will hurt them if I left bad feedback.

(I have nothing against hungarians, I am 75% hungarian blood myself but many lack understanding in customer service and mentchlickeit. ghetto mentality)

[HelenOster]

Adorama is known for not honoring price mistakes and cancelling all orders before they ship.

Despite our best efforts, with the thousands of items available on our Web site, pricing errors can occasionally occur. In accordance with our Terms and Conditions of Web Site Use and our Pricing and Availability Policy, there are occasions when an order needs to be cancelled because it simply isn't possible to fulfil hundreds - or even thousands - of orders placed for an item which has been listed incorrectly.
While we try and ensure that all prices on our website are accurate, errors may occur. If we discover an error in the price of goods you have ordered we will inform you as soon as possible and give you the option of reconfirming your order at the correct price or cancelling it. If we are unable to contact you we will treat the order as cancelled.

We do appreciate that customers may be disappointed; however, we believe that they will acknowledge that if they could reasonably have been expected to be aware that there was a mistake as to the published price of this item, prior to placing an order, that for it to be cancelled by us before it ships, is actually reasonable. It is also 100% legal as there is no contract between Adorama and the customer for an item until Adorama accepts the customer order by an e-mail confirming that it has dispatched the item, and the item has been paid for.

http://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace-law/bitstream/handle/1773.1/354/vol1_no1_art2.pdf

[yakov116]

To clarify, I knew this was a good deal but not necessarily a mistake. There are many sellers who just want to get rid of the 1-2 items that are laying around and just choose the lowest suggested price.

If this was a mistake on their part they should of cancelled the order. Once they "shipped" the order, the money is then released to them and they went into contract to me for the agreed upon price.

At this point they are stealing by not honoring the contract, I gave money for more then one item, but they only shipped one. They should talk to a Rov to see what kind of tikun they can have for breaking a contract and trying to steal money.

I thank everyone for your opinions, I will just open a credit card dispute, but will not leave bad feedback. I just need my money back, but being that I am a frum jew (try to be) I will not leave bad feedback even though they deserve it. They have been getting bad feedback from other customers for their hungarian customer service and it will hurt them if I left bad feedback.

(I have nothing against hungarians, I am 75% hungarian blood myself but many lack understanding in customer service and mentchlickeit. ghetto mentality)

Can I know what's so hard to ask your rov? Just ask! He won't bite you!

[Gevaldik]

No offense my friend, but you sound like a Chassid Shoiteh.

Go ask your Rov if you are being Oiver on Bittul Torah when you spend time posting here.

This person wasn't sure what was the right thing to do and asked for advice. You shouldn't get bent out of shape for someone suggesting to someone who asked for advice that he should ask a Rov instead of asking the question on a forum.  Sounds like good advice under these circumstances. It may cramp your style, but it is the right thing to do.