Author Topic: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?  (Read 15929 times)

Offline David R

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #255 on: January 08, 2019, 01:12:51 AM »
For a regular one way switch to a standard 2 bulb fixture how bad is it if itís not grounded?
If the switch is not grounded and you touch the metal screw attaching the plate to the switch, or if it has a metal plate if you touch anywhere on the plate, you are at risk of a shock if a hot wire inside the switch has managed to make contact with what should have been grounded.

If your light fixture is on the ceiling, there are very few scenarios that you would be touching it. That would primarily happen when changing a bulb. If a hot wire has made contact with metal that has an electrical connection to the exposed part of the fixture, you can get a shock. To avoid the risk of a shock, turn off the circuit breaker before touching the light fixture.

Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #256 on: January 08, 2019, 01:18:03 AM »
If the switch is not grounded and you touch the metal screw attaching the plate to the switch, or if it has a metal plate if you touch anywhere on the plate, you are at risk of a shock if a hot wire inside the switch has managed to make contact with what should have been grounded.

If your light fixture is on the ceiling, there are very few scenarios that you would be touching it. That would primarily happen when changing a bulb. If a hot wire has made contact with metal that has an electrical connection to the exposed part of the fixture, you can get a shock. To avoid the risk of a shock, turn off the circuit breaker before touching the light fixture.
If I may ask, how is the hot wire roaming loose? If im not mistaken most put a wire cap on the hot wires and electric tape if needed.
 Not the safest thing to have hot wires running loose in the ceiling.
 Either the braker would blow or God forbid cause an electrical fire if you have exposed wires in your ceiling.   
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Offline David R

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #257 on: January 08, 2019, 01:28:11 AM »
If I may ask, how is the hot wire roaming loose? If im not mistaken most put a wire cap on the hot wires and electric tape if needed.
 Not the safest thing to have hot wires running loose in the ceiling.
 Either the braker would blow or God forbid cause an electrical fire if you have exposed wires in your ceiling.   

Here are some examples of how the hot wire is roaming loose:
a mouse has nibbled at the insulation
a cockroach has nibbled at the insulation
some other creature has nibbled at the insulation
the person who installed it accidentally nicked some insulation and either didn't notice or pretended it didn't happen
old age combined with heat has caused the insulation to fray

Subsequently, a change in temperature causes a slight movement of the metal wire, causing it to make contact with some other metal.

If you want to talk about what's the safest thing, it's not the safest thing to forget about grounding either, yet somehow that happened.

If it was properly grounded and then the hot wire made contact with any part that's grounded, that would blow the circuit breaker saving you from getting a shock. But with no grounding, you don't have that protection.

Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #258 on: January 08, 2019, 02:09:48 AM »
Here are some examples of how the hot wire is roaming loose:
a mouse has nibbled at the insulation
a cockroach has nibbled at the insulation
some other creature has nibbled at the insulation
the person who installed it accidentally nicked some insulation and either didn't notice or pretended it didn't happen
old age combined with heat has caused the insulation to fray

Subsequently, a change in temperature causes a slight movement of the metal wire, causing it to make contact with some other metal.

If you want to talk about what's the safest thing, it's not the safest thing to forget about grounding either, yet somehow that happened.

If it was properly grounded and then the hot wire made contact with any part that's grounded, that would blow the circuit breaker saving you from getting a shock. But with no grounding, you don't have that protection.
Well explained. Thanks.
Gotch ya.
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Offline tzifanya54

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #259 on: January 08, 2019, 07:33:17 AM »
Here are some examples of how the hot wire is roaming loose:
a mouse has nibbled at the insulation
a cockroach has nibbled at the insulation
some other creature has nibbled at the insulation
the person who installed it accidentally nicked some insulation and either didn't notice or pretended it didn't happen
old age combined with heat has caused the insulation to fray

Subsequently, a change in temperature causes a slight movement of the metal wire, causing it to make contact with some other metal.

If you want to talk about what's the safest thing, it's not the safest thing to forget about grounding either, yet somehow that happened.

If it was properly grounded and then the hot wire made contact with any part that's grounded, that would blow the circuit breaker saving you from getting a shock. But with no grounding, you don't have that protection.
Ok thanks for explaining. Itís an old switch in an old house, if there is now ground wiring in switch box, is there a simple way to ground?

Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #260 on: January 09, 2019, 07:29:58 PM »
Ok thanks for explaining. It’s an old switch in an old house, if there is now ground wiring in switch box, is there a simple way to ground?
The Bx would have a green ground, if it does take a screw on the fixture and screw the the ground to it, and if not, not sure how to produce  a ground. Not sure if it's possible.
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Offline tzifanya54

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #261 on: January 09, 2019, 11:13:51 PM »
The Bx would have a green ground, if it does take a screw on the fixture and screw the the ground to it, and if not, not sure how to produce  a ground. Not sure if it's possible.
Some of the wiring is original wiring from the 50ís. Donít think they were so into grounding things back then...

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #262 on: January 09, 2019, 11:30:47 PM »
The Bx would have a green ground, if it does take a screw on the fixture and screw the the ground to it, and if not, not sure how to produce  a ground. Not sure if it's possible.
I think you're a little confused. If there is a green wire (meaning it's MC cable) and the box is metal, it needs to be connected to the box as well as the fixture. If there is no green wire (meaning it's BX cable) and the armor is acting as the ground, you would have to attach the fixture ground to the box.

Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #263 on: January 09, 2019, 11:37:30 PM »
I think you're a little confused. If there is a green wire (meaning it's MC cable) and the box is metal, it needs to be connected to the box as well as the fixture. If there is no green wire (meaning it's BX cable) and the armor is acting as the ground, you would have to attach the fixture ground to the box.
Correct, the MC I would ground to the box and the AC (or bx) I would have the thin wire or the bx acting like armor like you said act as a ground.
 
 Green to box and fixture ground to box as well/tighten around a screw if you like.
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Offline David R

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #264 on: January 09, 2019, 11:51:15 PM »
To attach a ground wire to a metal box:
If it is a relatively recently manufactured box, one or more of the holes in the back of the box is threaded for the purpose of screwing in a ground screw. Wrap the end of the bare wire or the stripped end of the green wire around the screw and tighten.
If the box is old, it may not have a threaded hole for grounding. In that case, use a ground clip, which holds the ground wire tightly against a side of the box.

Either way, I am not referring to the thin bare metal wire that runs through armored cable.

Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #265 on: January 10, 2019, 02:05:35 AM »

Either way, I am not referring to the thin bare metal wire that runs through armored cable.
As that's made to wrap around the bx and stick in a bushing to avoid the wires from being pulled back into the bx and having the wires nicked on the metal shards of the bx.
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Offline good sam

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #266 on: January 13, 2019, 10:36:29 PM »
So now I replaced my old cans with led retrofits. Is there any reason in the world to save the old cans or should they go straight to the trash?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #267 on: January 13, 2019, 10:44:59 PM »
So now I replaced my old cans with led retrofits. Is there any reason in the world to save the old cans or should they go straight to the trash?
I Would keep it

Offline good sam

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #268 on: January 13, 2019, 10:46:41 PM »
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline David R

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #269 on: January 14, 2019, 11:48:03 PM »
So now I replaced my old cans with led retrofits. Is there any reason in the world to save the old cans or should they go straight to the trash?
The white pieces in the photo are trims, not cans. As for the metal pieces, I'm surprised you removed them. Would the retrofits not have fit if you left those metal pieces in?