Author Topic: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?  (Read 57840 times)

Offline ushdadude

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #620 on: May 31, 2021, 12:19:07 PM »
Old switch didn't need neutral so they are capped together in the back of the box. I read online that I should add short white wire that came with smart switch to that bundle. If I don't have that wire anymore can I just untwist the 2 white wires and connect both to the smart switch?
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #621 on: May 31, 2021, 01:24:49 PM »
Old switch didn't need neutral so they are capped together in the back of the box. I read online that I should add short white wire that came with smart switch to that bundle. If I don't have that wire anymore can I just untwist the 2 white wires and connect both to the smart switch?
Why not just get a small piece of wire? I believe it will work but sounds a bit backwards.

Just fyi new switches don't need a neutral wire either, only smart switches which need power to run require a neutral. Old switches don't even have a neutral in the box..

Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #622 on: May 31, 2021, 01:32:57 PM »
Old switch didn't need neutral so they are capped together in the back of the box. I read online that I should add short white wire that came with smart switch to that bundle. If I don't have that wire anymore can I just untwist the 2 white wires and connect both to the smart switch?
No you should not break the neutral wire. Just add add a wire.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #623 on: May 31, 2021, 01:34:13 PM »
Old switches don't even have a neutral in the box..
They should otherwise how do you get a neutral to the item it is controlling?
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Offline ushdadude

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #624 on: May 31, 2021, 01:40:10 PM »
No you should not break the neutral wire. Just add add a wire.
That's what I'll do. Just curious why can't break neutral?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #625 on: May 31, 2021, 01:44:26 PM »
That's what I'll do. Just curious why can't break neutral?
You don't know all the places it might be going. When you break the loop it is possible for one of the wires to become live.
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Offline David R

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #626 on: May 31, 2021, 02:26:19 PM »
Old switch didn't need neutral so they are capped together in the back of the box. I read online that I should add short white wire that came with smart switch to that bundle. If I don't have that wire anymore can I just untwist the 2 white wires and connect both to the smart switch?
No you should not break the neutral wire. Just add add a wire.
My understanding of the question is that the smart switch comes with screw terminals instead of a short, permanently attached wire. By connecting both neutral wires to the screw terminal, assuming you use an allowed technique, you are not breaking anything; the two neutral wires still have an electrical connection to each other. Of course, you will only be doing this when the circuit breaker is switched off.

Offline ushdadude

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #627 on: May 31, 2021, 02:28:06 PM »
My understanding of the question is that the smart switch comes with screw terminals instead of a short, permanently attached wire. By connecting both neutral wires to the screw terminal, assuming you use an allowed technique, you are not breaking anything; the two neutral wires still have an electrical connection to each other. Of course, you will only be doing this when the circuit breaker is switched off.
That was my question. But I found a small piece of wire so I just twisted it together with the other 2
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #628 on: May 31, 2021, 02:50:34 PM »
My understanding of the question is that the smart switch comes with screw terminals instead of a short, permanently attached wire. By connecting both neutral wires to the screw terminal, assuming you use an allowed technique, you are not breaking anything; the two neutral wires still have an electrical connection to each other. Of course, you will only be doing this when the circuit breaker is switched off.
Hard to put two wires on one terminal especially if they are stranded. Also almost impossible to put the two on the same terminal without separating them first.
That was my question. But I found a small piece of wire so I just twisted it together with the other 2
That is the proper way.
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #629 on: May 31, 2021, 03:57:04 PM »
They should otherwise how do you get a neutral to the item it is controlling?
For a switch they didn't have the neutral go through the box, instead of splitting both they just split the live. (Now with modern code it's mandatory)

My understanding of the question is that the smart switch comes with screw terminals instead of a short, permanently attached wire. By connecting both neutral wires to the screw terminal, assuming you use an allowed technique, you are not breaking anything; the two neutral wires still have an electrical connection to each other. Of course, you will only be doing this when the circuit breaker is switched off.
Precisely.

Hard to put two wires on one terminal especially if they are stranded. Also almost impossible to put the two on the same terminal without separating them first.
Correct. But assuming it's not stranded it shouldn't be too hard to attach (especially if it's a modern terminal with that flap piece). Obviously the small wire is the way to go.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #630 on: May 31, 2021, 04:16:37 PM »
For a switch they didn't have the neutral go through the box, instead of splitting both they just split the live. (Now with modern code it's mandatory)
No need to split the neutral. Say the switch controls a light. Where does the light get the neutral from?
But assuming it's not stranded it shouldn't be too hard to attach (especially if it's a modern terminal with that flap piece).
Many of the modern switches just have a screw terminal. It is probably against code to put two wires on a screw terminal.
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #631 on: May 31, 2021, 04:31:01 PM »
No need to split the neutral. Say the switch controls a light. Where does the light get the neutral from?
Exactly. Since there is technically no need to split the neutral, in old wiring they didn't put the neutral in the box, they ran just the hot to the switch box and the neutral went direct to the light.

(IINM they had the wiring go directly to the fixture with another wire going to the light with a black and red wire for hot and a return)

Many of the modern switches just have a screw terminal. It is probably against code to put two wires on a screw terminal.
In switches with that flap the make it real easy to, don't know about code though.

click picture
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 04:34:47 PM by Yo ssi »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #632 on: May 31, 2021, 04:39:03 PM »
In switches with that flap the make it real easy to, don't know about code though.
If the switch has the clamp you should be good. They even work fine with stranded wire. IIRC you can't use the screw to make an electrical connection between the wires.
Exactly. Since there is technically no need to split the neutral, in old wiring they didn't put the neutral in the box, they ran just the hot to the switch box and the neutral went direct to the light.

(IINM they had the wiring go directly to the fixture with another wire going to the light with a black and red wire for hot and a return)
That is some messed up routing.
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #633 on: May 31, 2021, 04:40:23 PM »
If the switch has the clamp you should be good. They even work fine with stranded wire. IIRC you can't use the screw to make an electrical connection between the wires.
That makes sense.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #634 on: May 31, 2021, 04:41:37 PM »
To bad @ElectricCPR isn't around.
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Offline myi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #635 on: June 01, 2021, 04:09:42 PM »
That makes sense.
@Yo ssi sorry to bother you again which solder did you end up buying? need a small one to replace the battery of an iPod nano. So looking for a kit to buy.
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #636 on: June 01, 2021, 04:18:21 PM »
@Yo ssi sorry to bother you again which solder did you end up buying? need a small one to replace the battery of an iPod nano. So looking for a kit to buy.
I'm not sure what type of kit your looking for, I got lead solder (63/37 1.8mm) from china.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #637 on: June 01, 2021, 07:23:01 PM »
I got lead solder (63/37 1.8mm) from china.
You ordered a toy?  :)
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #638 on: June 01, 2021, 08:07:26 PM »

Offline myi

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