Author Topic: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?  (Read 158082 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #120 on: May 13, 2018, 09:04:08 PM »
Look at the bulb as a simple resistor. Hot goes directly to timer and neutral goes through the resistor (bulb) to the timer. The timer now has a hot and neutral.
This might help: https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-2454EFS.pdf

Now a question for you. If the bulb burns out does the timer have power?  :)
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #121 on: May 13, 2018, 09:11:51 PM »
Look at the bulb as a simple resistor. Hot goes directly to timer and neutral goes through the resistor (bulb) to the timer. The timer now has a hot and neutral.
This might help: https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-2454EFS.pdf

Now a question for you. If the bulb burns out does the timer have power?  :)
Thank You very much, Dus iz a R' chaim, whats the answer to your question, i believe that it wouldn't but there would be no need unless if it displays the time and you lost you watch, since it needs a minimum 50 watts for it to function properly, correct me if i'm wrong.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #122 on: May 13, 2018, 09:15:03 PM »
Thank You very much, Dus iz a R' chaim, whats the answer to your question, i believe that it wouldn't but there would be no need unless if it displays the time and you lost you watch, since it needs a minimum 50 watts for it to function properly, correct me if i'm wrong.
You are correct and the 50 watts IMHO is over kill. I seen them work with 10 watt bulbs.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #123 on: May 13, 2018, 09:20:12 PM »
if the switchbox doesnt have a neutral how safe would it be to substitute with the ground? or what other tricks are there to go around the problem?
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Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #124 on: May 13, 2018, 09:22:35 PM »
if the switchbox doesnt have a neutral how safe would it be to substitute with the ground? or what other tricks are there to go around the problem?
One of the tricks of the trade, they both get connected to the same place in the electric panel

Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2018, 09:22:44 PM »
The switch works with a built in ground
What in the world? does it also come with a built in hot?
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2018, 09:24:21 PM »
One of the tricks of the trade, they both get connected to the same place in the electric panel
I heard of that in the past I just want to know safety wise if its Lekatchila or for buchorim in the dorm its ok.
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Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2018, 09:24:32 PM »
What in the world? does it also come with a built in hot?
The ground is the neutral it gets connected via when screwing in the switch

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2018, 09:24:51 PM »
if the switchbox doesnt have a neutral how safe would it be to substitute with the ground? or what other tricks are there to go around the problem?
Never ever use ground for neutral. Why do you need a neutral?
Full disclosure: I am not an electrician but an electronic technician.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2018, 09:25:29 PM »
I heard of that in the past I just want to know safety wise if its Lekatchila or for buchorim in the dorm its ok.
It's 100% safe and is ok as long as there is no inspection.

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2018, 09:26:08 PM »
Never ever use ground for neutral. Why do you need a neutral?
Full disclosure: I am not an electrician but an electronic technician.
Sorry to bust your bubble I am

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2018, 09:29:44 PM »
Sorry to bust your bubble I am
You should not say it is 100% safe.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2018, 09:30:50 PM »
Please fight it out (only with explanations not with you could/you cant) and let me know thanks,
Quote
My uncle always used to say “the hardest thing to remember is what you didn’t used to know.” People who don’t know wiring will be better served by the rule of thumb that the ground and the neutral are not interchangeable. People who do know wiring, will know what to do to figure out what is going on on the circuits in front of them.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 09:34:00 PM by yesitsme »
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #133 on: May 13, 2018, 09:33:11 PM »
Please fight it out (only with explanations not with you could/you cant) and let me know thanks,
Nothing to fight out. You are replacing the switch with a timer. The timer now becomes the switch in simple terms.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2018, 09:33:47 PM »
Please fight it out (only with explanations not with you could/you cant) and let me know thanks,
At the panel the neutral wire block is connected the main ground, with this fact in mind, the ground and neutral are virtually the same.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #135 on: May 13, 2018, 09:38:58 PM »
At the panel the neutral wire block is connected the main ground, with this fact in mind, the ground and neutral are virtually the same.
The voltage potential at that point is the same. Through out the house that will not be the same. As an electrician you are fully aware in older houses the conduit itself was the ground. You try using that as your neutral is an accident waiting to happen.

Now back to the bubble busting. An ET is way up the food chain from an electrician.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #136 on: May 13, 2018, 09:40:00 PM »
The voltage potential at that point is the same. Through out the house that will not be the same. As an electrician you are fully aware in older houses the conduit itself was the ground. You try using that as your neutral is an accident waiting to happen.

Now back to the bubble busting. An ET is way above the food chain than an electrician.  :)
I'd only use it for timers

Offline yesitsme

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Offline yesitsme

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #138 on: May 13, 2018, 09:52:35 PM »
https://community.smartthings.com/t/faq-neutral-and-ground-wires-are-not-interchangeable/27849/23
Based in that discussion, as long as the neutral points back to the same panel its mostly safe, since in NYC all wiring is required to be in a conduit it should be enough to attach to the switch-box.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: I need Electric Help... Any electricians out there?
« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2018, 09:57:59 PM »
Based in that discussion, as long as the neutral points back to the same panel its mostly safe, since in NYC all wiring is required to be in a conduit it should be enough to attach to the switch-box.
Let me say this again. Never use the ground as a neutral.
There are many situations where this can be dangerous. Things can be wired wrong or you can get broken/welded wires. Try using ground for neutral with a GFCI?
I just found a new supply of forks!