Author Topic: America's Got Talent  (Read 76572 times)

Offline danrocks613

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #435 on: August 20, 2014, 04:06:18 PM »
Agreed. I don't think anyone will debate that. What irks me is in the discussion of permissibility when ppl make distinctions this show/video/event/... is permitted and this one isn't just to rationalize in their minds that's what they do is correct and then spew it to the public as if that's the rules.
In a discussion of what we each should strive for (which this isn't)  one should strive to be able to realize the true taanug. 

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #436 on: August 20, 2014, 04:17:37 PM »
No need to be jealous if you can't eat MD's.  :)
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #437 on: August 20, 2014, 04:18:06 PM »
Agreed. I don't think anyone will debate that. What irks me is in the discussion of permissibility when ppl make distinctions this show/video/event/... is permitted and this one isn't just to rationalize in their minds that's what they do is correct and then spew it to the public as if that's the rules.
In a discussion of what we each should strive for (which this isn't)  one should strive to be able to realize the true taanug.
I do debate that, please quote a source. Very strong statement to say that whatever is Assur isn't fun.

The correct statement would be that man isn't created to pursue fun.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Freddie

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #438 on: August 20, 2014, 04:26:55 PM »
I do debate that, please quote a source. Very strong statement to say that whatever is Assur isn't fun.

I never said that. I just said that as you grow up and become a mentsch, you realize that what you thought was so awesome is really not so awesome. I don't need a makor for that! When you were five, you went nuts for a roll of Winkies. When you were fifteen you grew out of that. Winkies are still geshmak, just not as geshmak as you thought.

The correct statement would be that man isn't created to pursue fun.

I agree with you. That is Toras HaBaal Shem Tov, that the purpose of life is to give Hashem nachas, not me. However, Ramchal will disagree and say that the purpose of life is to pursue fun... just fun in olam habah known as s'char. But like I already said, I agree with you.   

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #439 on: August 20, 2014, 04:32:27 PM »
I never said that.


Seems to me you did
not whether it is permitted or not, but whether it is entertaining or not. Yiras shamayim doesn't mean depriving myself of fun, it means changing my definition of fun. Or better yet, growing up and realizing that the stuff I used to think was fun is actually kind of lame

I agree with you. That is Toras HaBaal Shem Tov, that the purpose of life is to give Hashem nachas, not me. However, Ramchal will disagree and say that the purpose of life is to pursue fun... just fun in olam habah known as s'char. But like I already said, I agree with you.   
My point, and I have a feeling you know it, was that in this world one's responsibility isn't to pursue 'fun'. (furthermore, though I may be wrong I don't believe that's what the Ramchal says. The idea of  נהמא דכיסופא is that Hashem created us to be able to give us pleasure, however after we have torah & mitzvos the mission is only to comply with Ratzon hashem, not to try to get enjoyment by complying w ration hashem)

I just said that as you grow up and become a mentsch, you realize that what you thought was so awesome is really not so awesome. I don't need a makor for that! When you were five, you went nuts for a roll of Winkies. When you were fifteen you grew out of that. Winkies are still geshmak, just not as geshmak as you thought.
That doesn't mean the kid didn't 100% enjoy the winkies. So likewise here, listening to the shiktza can be 100% entertaining & fun yet the ultimate schar is greater.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Freddie

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #440 on: August 20, 2014, 04:40:32 PM »
Wow, I'll tell you what's not fun...

You took a lot of words to essentially agree with me. Why so combative?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #441 on: August 20, 2014, 04:44:05 PM »
Wow, I'll tell you what's not fun...

You took a lot of words to essentially agree with me. Why so combative?
Your original post said one shouldn't go to AGT because it's not really entertaining or fun. I didn't believe you had a source for that so i called you out on that.

The gemara at the end of Eizhu Neshech says one of the amorim would make his young children lend money bribbis so they can see the pleasure of earning  interest and get more schar for abstaining from it when they become of age. (Yes I know machlos assurim is a machlokes rishonim)

If I misunderstood your point, I apologize. But I definitely used less words than you
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Freddie

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #442 on: August 20, 2014, 04:51:54 PM »
Your original post said one shouldn't go to AGT because it's not really entertaining or fun. I didn't believe you had a source for that so i called you out on that.

The gemara at the end of Eizhu Neshech says one of the amorim would make his young children lend money bribbis so they can see the pleasure of earning  interest and get more schar for abstaining from it when they become of age. (Yes I know machlos assurim is a machlokes rishonim)

If I misunderstood your point, I apologize. But I definitely used less words than you

Sweet friend, there are levels in fun. Spinning around until you're dizzy is fun. At least it would seem so from my little sons and daughters who do it all the time. I am sure AGT is fun. I am sure that a Yankee's game is fun. Peekaboo is also fun.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #443 on: August 20, 2014, 04:56:50 PM »
Sweet friend, there are levels in fun. Spinning around until you're dizzy is fun. At least it would seem so from my little sons and daughters who do it all the time. I am sure AGT is fun. I am sure that a Yankee's game is fun. Peekaboo is also fun.
I actually don't think a Yankees game is fun at all. But I am confused about your point.
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Freddie

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #444 on: August 20, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »
I actually don't think a Yankees game is fun at all. But I am confused about your point.

Well there are 80,000 people who do think it's fun. Congratulations for not being one of them.

My point is only this: there are levels of fun. Aveiros can be pleasurable, that's why people DO them. (I won't get into the side discussion of how much actual pleasure there is and how much that pleasure is compounded by the mayim genuvim yimtaku...)

Today, in the "frum" world, there are two main camps. Those who says: I want my Judaism and I want my fun (minyan at a Yankee's game, or daf yomi shiur AFTER the AGT show) and then there are those who say, "I want my Judaism INSTEAD of fun! I don't NEED fun."

The healthier, and more true approach is that Judaism IS fun.

Now the question is HOW fun is Judaism? Well, it all depends on you and where you are holding right now. You can be a person who would rather go to AGT than learn a blat gemara but you can become a person who would genuinely prefer a blat gemara to AGT.

That's all I am saying. If it is still unclear, I am sorry. I guess I am not a very good communicator.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #445 on: August 20, 2014, 05:18:59 PM »
The healthier, and more true approach is that Judaism IS fun.

Now the question is HOW fun is Judaism? Well, it all depends on you and where you are holding right now. You can be a person who would rather go to AGT than learn a blat gemara but you can become a person who would genuinely prefer a blat gemara to AGT.

That's all I am saying. If it is still unclear, I am sorry. I guess I am not a very good communicator.
I get it.  :)
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #446 on: August 20, 2014, 05:20:40 PM »

Now the question is HOW fun is Judaism? Well, it all depends on you and where you are holding right now. You can be a person who would rather go to AGT than learn a blat gemara but you can become a person who would genuinely prefer a blat gemara to AGT.

With that I agree. Now I know what you and your wife do on date night
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Sport

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #447 on: August 20, 2014, 05:22:07 PM »

Sweet friend, there are levels in fun. Spinning around until you're dizzy is fun. I am sure AGT is fun. I am sure that a Yankee's game is fun. Peekaboo is also fun.
This thread used to be fun :p guess I'm growing up.

Online sguitarist18

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #448 on: August 20, 2014, 05:31:55 PM »
The gemara at the end of Eizhu Neshech says one of the amorim would make his young children lend money bribbis so they can see the pleasure of earning  interest and get more schar for abstaining from it when they become of age. (Yes I know machlos assurim is a machlokes rishonim)

Where is that gemara? Are you talking about the gemara on 75a? Because that's not what that gemara says (although maybe you're referring to a different one I'm not familiar with).

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #449 on: August 20, 2014, 05:38:37 PM »
With that I agree. Now I know what you and your wife do on date night
The first Mitzvah? ;)
Curiosity made the cat smarter.