Author Topic: America's Got Talent  (Read 78409 times)

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #525 on: August 28, 2014, 10:32:49 PM »
I'm still waiting for the verdict from our resident poskim here, as a shulchan aruch abiding Jew, may I go to an AGT show? does it depend on whether I consider it fun? how about TiVo'ing it, youtube?
see above

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #526 on: August 28, 2014, 11:24:11 PM »
baba basra 57b
 just to be clear i was in response to the comment about  going to a show and walking out when it becomes inappropriate, to that i responded that the gemara says someone who puts himself in a path where he can see something inappropriate is called a rasha. the gemara is clearly reffering to someone who doesnt look, yet he is called a rasha for putting himself  in a situation
as far as actually staying and viewing that would probably be a issur deoraisa

So men shouldn't go to a grocery store, amusement park, ice rink, sports game, etc.?  Why not just lock them in the Bais Medrash?  This is why we ask our own personal Rabbonim about what to do in our own personal situations rather than painting nearly everyone as a rasha.

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #527 on: September 01, 2014, 11:59:51 AM »
So men shouldn't go to a grocery store, amusement park, ice rink, sports game, etc.?  Why not just lock them in the Bais Medrash?  This is why we ask our own personal Rabbonim about what to do in our own personal situations rather than painting nearly everyone as a rasha.
any rabbi that tells you that you are not a rasha bc times have changed is a koifer. if your rabbi feels that in your personal situation that you are not ready to keep the whole torah and its better if he tells you its ok so that you dont drop everything, thats fine , but one who goes is still a rasha and is oiver on a isur deoraisa. and will be punished in the next world, no rabbi can change that

Offline aygart

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #528 on: September 01, 2014, 01:01:50 PM »
Please give a clear definition of ika and leka darka achrina and your source. Please include guidlines which clarify the following questions.

Does it include buying in Walmart at a cheaper price when he could pay more at a frum store? Does it mean one must drive to work in his own car instead of taking the subway? Does it mean one must travel a roundabout way? Does it mean one may not go to any vacation spot since there are many people dressed more casually which is usually less tznius? May one travel on a bus where the driver may have on women singing or must you walk across town? Does it make a difference if the alternative also has tznius issues which may be less extensive but may be more difficult to turn away from? If there is no similar form of entertainment without the tznius issues is that called leka darka achrina?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #529 on: September 01, 2014, 05:27:25 PM »
Please give a clear definition of ika and leka darka achrina and your source. Please include guidlines which clarify the following questions.

Does it include buying in Walmart at a cheaper price when he could pay more at a frum store? Does it mean one must drive to work in his own car instead of taking the subway? Does it mean one must travel a roundabout way? Does it mean one may not go to any vacation spot since there are many people dressed more casually which is usually less tznius? May one travel on a bus where the driver may have on women singing or must you walk across town? Does it make a difference if the alternative also has tznius issues which may be less extensive but may be more difficult to turn away from? If there is no similar form of entertainment without the tznius issues is that called leka darka achrina?
from the fact that the gemara reffers to leka darcha achrina as onos, should give you a more clear prespective. as to any specific cases, ask a respected rabbi. when he tells you that any of your cases are muttar ask him for a source
(i am sure that going to agt show for pleasure does not constitute ones. aside that its prob a deoraisa)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 05:31:13 PM by dans fan »

Offline aygart

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #530 on: September 01, 2014, 05:44:37 PM »
from the fact that the gemara reffers to leka darcha achrina as onos, should give you a more clear prespective. as to any specific cases, ask a respected rabbi. when he tells you that any of your cases are muttar ask him for a source
(i am sure that going to agt show for pleasure does not constitute ones. aside that its prob a deoraisa)

How about as a shortcut?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Moishel

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #531 on: September 01, 2014, 06:11:49 PM »
baba basra 57b
 just to be clear i was in response to the comment about  going to a show and walking out when it becomes inappropriate, to that i responded that the gemara says someone who puts himself in a path where he can see something inappropriate is called a rasha. the gemara is clearly reffering to someone who doesnt look, yet he is called a rasha for putting himself  in a situation
as far as actually staying and viewing that would probably be a issur deoraisa
as  per the gemara in bb. i dont see it being debatable its very clear you are a rasha
I know frummies love to use this gemarah, but I'm sorry to inform you that this gemara is not paskened lehalacha in Shulchan Aruch. Besides, if you learnt pshat correctly instead of just repeating slogans you'd come to entirely different conclusions.


any rabbi that tells you that you are not a rasha bc times have changed is a koifer. if your rabbi feels that in your personal situation that you are not ready to keep the whole torah and its better if he tells you its ok so that you dont drop everything, thats fine , but one who goes is still a rasha and is oiver on a isur deoraisa. and will be punished in the next world, no rabbi can change that
Wow! So whoever uses the term נשטתנו הטבעים or נשתנו העתים is ipso facto a kofer. Kofer in what exactly? Do we still keep our women locked up the way the Rambam says we should? or do we say that times have changed and women today are a normal occurrence on the street?

Offline Moishel

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #532 on: September 01, 2014, 06:34:45 PM »
from the fact that the gemara reffers to leka darcha achrina as onos, should give you a more clear prespective. as to any specific cases, ask a respected rabbi. when he tells you that any of your cases are muttar ask him for a source
(i am sure that going to agt show for pleasure does not constitute ones. aside that its prob a deoraisa)
Nice pshetel, but still wrong. The gemara doesn't care if his destination is going to shul, to save a sick puppy, to perform life saving brain surgery for blind homeless man who lost both arms in the process of saving a sick puppy, or just to buy ice cream, all the gemara is saying that if he can walk down river boulevard and main street to get to that destination and he's taking river boulevard where women wash their laundry then he's a rasha. But if he needs to go this way for whatever reason then the gemara doesn't even require him to look away! אי ליכא דרכא אחרינא אנוס הוא" and rashi says on that אם מסתכל דרך הליכתו ואונס רחמנא פטריה ולמה מזקיקו הכתוב להעצים עיניו דמדמשתבח ביה קרא שמעינן דצריך לעצום עיניו. To that the gemara answers that if he does close his eyes he is considered to be in a very high madrega of חסיד.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #533 on: September 01, 2014, 06:36:50 PM »
Nice pshetel, but still wrong. The gemara doesn't care if his destination is going to shul, to save a sick puppy, to perform life saving brain surgery for blind homeless man who lost both arms in the process of saving a sick puppy, or just to buy ice cream, all the gemara is saying that if he can walk down river boulevard and main street to get to that destination and he's taking river boulevard where women wash their laundry then he's a rasha. But if he needs to go this way for whatever reason then the gemara doesn't even require him to look away! אי ליכא דרכא אחרינא אנוס הוא" and Rashbam says on that אם מסתכל דרך הליכתו ואונס רחמנא פטריה ולמה מזקיקו הכתוב להעצים עיניו דמדמשתבח ביה קרא שמעינן דצריך לעצום עיניו. To that the gemara answers that if he does close his eyes he is considered to be in a very high madrega of חסיד.
FTFY
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #534 on: September 01, 2014, 06:46:47 PM »
I know frummies love to use this gemarah, but I'm sorry to inform you that this gemara is not paskened lehalacha in Shulchan Aruch.
that is utter nonsense
Besides, if you learnt pshat correctly instead of just repeating slogans you'd come to entirely different conclusions.
do you have a source for a different pshat than the literal one and the one that many learned rabbis from previous generations have learned?
Wow! So whoever uses the term נשטתנו הטבעים or נשתנו העתים is ipso facto a kofer.
you will rarely find those terms being used its a very delicate issue and the guidlines may vary, i have heard different shitos as to exactly when we can say it. but according to no definition can one apply it to our disscussion
Kofer in what exactly?
chazal
Do we still keep our women locked up the way the Rambam says we should? or do we say that times have changed and women today are a normal occurrence on the street?
untill this line i was under the impression you may have some background yedios to your point, what does the rambam have to do with being koifer in chazal? nowwhere does it say that a psak from the rambam or shulchan aruch ect... has those guidelines  on the contrary we find that it can be said about them that a taos was made

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #535 on: September 01, 2014, 06:51:24 PM »
Nice pshetel, but still wrong. The gemara doesn't care if his destination is going to shul, to save a sick puppy, to perform life saving brain surgery for blind homeless man who lost both arms in the process of saving a sick puppy, or just to buy ice cream, all the gemara is saying that if he can walk down river boulevard and main street to get to that destination and he's taking river boulevard where women wash their laundry then he's a rasha. But if he needs to go this way for whatever reason then the gemara doesn't even require him to look away! אי ליכא דרכא אחרינא אנוס הוא" and rashi says on that אם מסתכל דרך הליכתו ואונס רחמנא פטריה ולמה מזקיקו הכתוב להעצים עיניו דמדמשתבח ביה קרא שמעינן דצריך לעצום עיניו. To that the gemara answers that if he does close his eyes he is considered to be in a very high madrega of חסיד.
you obviosly do not know how to learn a gemara either

Offline Moishel

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Offline Moishel

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #537 on: September 01, 2014, 06:52:03 PM »
you obviosly do not know how to learn a gemara either
Well, obviously...

Offline aygart

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #538 on: September 01, 2014, 06:52:43 PM »


that is utter nonsense do you have a source for a different pshat than the literal one and the one that many learned rabbis from previous generations have learned?you will rarely find those terms being used its a very delicate issue and the guidlines may vary, i have heard different shitos as to exactly when we can say it. but according to no definition can one apply it to our disscussion chazaluntill this line i was under the impression you may have some background yedios to your point, what does the rambam have to do with being koifer in chazal? nowwhere does it say that a psak from the rambam or shulchan aruch ect... has those guidelines  on the contrary we find that it can be said about them that a taos was made

Please provide sources
How about as a shortcut?
I assume you are saying no, correct?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline dans fan

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Re: Jewish Boy Tells Dirty Jokes On Americas got Talant
« Reply #539 on: September 01, 2014, 06:55:03 PM »

Please provide sourcesI assume you are saying no, correct?
source for what, literal definition?
its no different than all the rest of bavli ,yerushalmi or medrash thats not brought in shulchan aruch the literal meaning is ussaully the correct one unless you will find mefarshim with a different explanaition or it doesnt make sense . you probably wont find this gemara brought other than in mussar/machshava seforim which is mostly common over the past 150 years or so
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 07:01:34 PM by dans fan »