Politically and economically where do you guys stand?

[clear thinker]

I keep seeing a statistic, that the government spends over $60,000 in welfare annually per poor family.
Not that they receive that much, but that's how much the government spends running all their different ridiculous programs. Why are there still poor people? If they just cut a check for 60 friggin thousand dollars that would put the entire population far above the poverty line.

If you can't agree that the government turned into highway robbers and causes economic inefficiency you are clearly deluded.

Every recent election the big focus is always on "minorities" (aka potential black and Hispanic voters) and how much "freebies" each candidate can promise them.

As is famously said "When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic."

I recently saw the number of every dollar that gets spend by the government for welfare how much cent of it goes for "bureaucracy" it was a ridiculous number (I just can't remember it).
 government runned systems is a mistake, it's a flaw, it doesn't bring good on the contrary! That's the point the less involved the better! Only the very minimum that's needed.

[yuneeq]

Do you have a source for that number?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-60000-welfare-spentper-household-poverty_657889.html

[ChaimMoskowitz]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-60000-welfare-spentper-household-poverty_657889.html

I am sure those figures are accurate.

New data compiled by the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee shows that, last year, the United States spent over $60,000 to support welfare programs per each household that is in poverty. The calculations are based on data from the Census, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Congressional Research Services.

[Sport]

I am sure those figures are accurate.

New data compiled by the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee shows that, last year, the United States spent over $60,000 to support welfare programs per each household that is in poverty. The calculations are based on data from the Census, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Congressional Research Services.

so cut it in half, still way high.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

so cut it in half, still way high.

30k is high for a family of 4-6?

[Sport]

30k is high for a family of 4-6?

As income, no As a subsidy, yes. What's the poverty line for such a family?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

As income, no As a subsidy, yes. What's the poverty line for such a family?

Family of five: 27,910

[Sport]

Family of five: 27,910

A better question is what's the average income of a family that size  that's bellow the poverty line? Then we can see if 30k more is very high or average.

[aygart]

A better question is what's the average income of a family that size  that's bellow the poverty line? Then we can see if 30k more is very high or average.

You are getting very nitty gritty. Lets first discuss what reasonable administrative costs are to have a real number to deal with.

[Sport]

You are getting very nitty gritty. Lets first discuss what reasonable administrative costs are to have a real number to deal with.

true, I didn't even mean to get into this.

[aygart]

true, I didn't even mean to get into this.

yes, it really is irelevant. He was only making a point that the current system is overboard and/or inefficient. I think most (other than the far left) would agree to that to some extent.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

yes, it really is irelevant. He was only making a point that the current system is overboard and/or inefficient. I think most (other than the far left) would agree to that to some extent.

I would go with "inefficient".

[aygart]

I would go with "inefficient".

I would go with both. If you go through the numbers, a family can live without anyone working. Section 8 pays for housing, free healthcare, free cellphone, between WIC and food stamps basic food should be covered, welfare can cover anything missing like basic clothes. HEAP and other programs cover electric and heat, education in public school etc. Maybe a part time job would be needed.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

a family can live without anyone working. Section 8 pays for housing, free healthcare, free cellphone, between WIC and food stamps basic food should be covered, welfare can cover anything missing like basic clothes. HEAP and other programs cover electric and heat, education in public school etc.

How much you think this is going to cost the gov to supply all this for a family of five? You think 30k will cover it?

[aygart]

How much you think this is going to cost the gov to supply all this for a family of five? You think 30k will cover it?

Depends on location. I would guess that average is smaller than family of five as well. WHere did the number of 30k come from anyhow?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Depends on location. I would guess that average is smaller than family of five as well. WHere did the number of 30k come from anyhow?

30k just Evolved in this thread. It was 60 and I said that number couldn't be trusted so we cut it in half. Very scientific. 
Is there any data for family size of those in poverty?

[aygart]

dunno

[yuneeq]

30k just Evolved in this thread. It was 60 and I said that number couldn't be trusted so we cut it in half. Very scientific. 
Is there any data for family size of those in poverty?

I can't tell you that the 60k is an accurate number (it's just a statistic after all),
but there are many people I know that easily get 60-70k worth of welfare a year, (I did the math, so can you)
and I'm not taking the bureaucratic costs into account simply because I don't know how high they are.
I would guesstimate that bureaucratic costs add 10-15k on top of that.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

For the major offices voted for one more R than D.