Author Topic: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens  (Read 33812 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2014, 09:09:35 PM »
The Satmar Rebbe Zt"l was delusional?  :P (He believed that it was Israel's strength [or the sitra acher] that won the wars, not Hashem).
What do you mean by "or"? He believed it was the unnatural power of the sitra achra. No one believes it was a natural win of the mighty over the weak.
Do you understand his shita?

Offline MenachemS

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2014, 09:09:48 PM »
Well, you don't understand what Satmar says that if all the Orthodox Jews would follow the Satmar שיטה and they would have never send members to the כנסת and not participate in the בחירות etc, then we would never have to deal with גיות בני ישיבות. So you basically understand what you WANT to understand.
Not comprehending. What does that have to do with blaming the parents for their kids murder?

Offline MenachemS

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #122 on: July 03, 2014, 09:19:06 PM »
Just by the way, statistically, more Jews were killed in the 1949 borders since the intifada (in busses in tel Aviv etc.) than were killed in the shtachim.

Offline MenachemS

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2014, 09:31:48 PM »
Every yeshivishe guy(who's hashkofos are brisk-lite) agrees with the gist of what he is saying. Rav shach famously stopped a yeshiva community that wanted to form in emmanuel for this reason.That being said the timing wasnt right (although i doubt he realized it would be broadcast across the world) and I think he got his facts wrong as they were not in the settlements.
What exactly does every Yeshivishe guy agree with?

That if a Jew gets murdered its his fault? That more Jews got killed put of the shtachim? That israel is safer since the 6 day war?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2014, 09:45:19 PM »
Not so sure I follow your logic - those numbers are per 100,000 people in the population, not per 100,000 people with cars. So if you take 100,000 people in America, 11.4 will die in car accidents. If you take the same number of people in the West Bank, 10.4 will die from car accidents and homicide combined. Which 100,00 is safer to be a part of?

For example, Micronesia has 1.8 fatalities per 100,000 people, are they better drivers? No, the reason is because noone drives (there are 28 vehicles per 1000 people vs the US of 797).
So a better way to compare danger would be fatalities per vehicle. According to wikipedia in the West Bank there were 86.5 deaths per 100,000 vehicles vs the US of 13.7, so driving the West bank, you have a 631% larger chance of dying in a car accident.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 09:48:51 PM by yitzf »

Offline Baruch

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2014, 09:52:11 PM »
What do you mean by "or"? He believed it was the unnatural power of the sitra achra. No one believes it was a natural win of the mighty over the weak.
Do you understand his shita?
He explained the Israeli victory in 2 different ways. He said it for sure wasn't Hashem, it was either Israeli strength, or the Sitra Achra.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2014, 09:55:35 PM »
What do you mean by "or"? He believed it was the unnatural power of the sitra achra. No one believes it was a natural win of the mighty over the weak.
Do you understand his shita?
You have to educate yourself before you can make claims on a subject. Why are you so dismissive of my claims,when you are obviously very uninformed on the subject. In the future before you argue, please educate yourself.

Here is a quote from the Satmar Rebbe: (First result when you google "satmar rebbe six day war", that's how little research was necessary).

Satmar Rebbe(Divrei Yoel Behaloscha page 304): Would you even imagine that there would be empty headed fools that while they call themselves religious but the smell of heresy wafts from their mouths and they fool the whole world with their announcements about miracles [during the Six Day War] – G‑d save us. If in fact these were miracles it would have been much worse. That is because there is bitter retribution to the Jewish people when G-d does miracles from the aspect of evil as the Maharal mentioned before stated. However in truth there were no miracles here at all [concerning the Six Day War]. It was simply a natural occurrence as can readily be seen from the discussions in the newspapers that it was assumed that [Israel] would be victorious. I have already stated that I am fearful – G‑d forbid – for the time when actual miracles are done for them. If at this time when in truth there were no miracles and yet this great evil befell them, then surely if there had been miracles done for them that it would have brought about severe suffering as we mentioned above. From this we see the extreme degree of their cruelty and evil. That even though it was reasonable that [Israel] was going to win the war, nevertheless the Jewish people were in great danger. Nevertheless they placed the Jewish people in this danger for the sake of their glory and for the sake of their governing. Because it was obvious to those with understanding that [Israel] had the ability to completely prevent the war. There were a number of alternatives and circumstances regarding preventing the war, but this is not the place to go into detail. Nevertheless someone who has eyes will see that there is no doubt about this. In fact it was the filth of heresy that blinded their eyes and made them act in an irresponsible and irrational manner..
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 09:58:51 PM by Baruch »

Offline tzvicoco

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2014, 09:57:48 PM »
For example, Micronesia has 1.8 fatalities per 100,000 people, are they better drivers? No, the reason is because noone drives (there are 28 vehicles per 1000 people vs the US of 797).
So a better way to compare danger would be fatalities per vehicle. According to wikipedia in the West Bank there were 86.5 deaths per 100,000 vehicles vs the US of 13.7, so driving the West bank, you have a 631% larger chance of dying in a car accident.
I don't know if you've ever taken a stats course, but you're approaching this from the wrong angle. I'm not talking about the dangers of driving in the West Bank, or the number of cars there. All that matters in my argument is that if you take a sample of 100,000 people, how many of them will be killed? Yes, fewer people in Israel are driving, and there are fewer cars. As the numbers show, that just means its safer to live there.
What you're saying is the equivalent of me saying "how many fatalities per Muslim extremist in the US versus Israel?" The key is the odds of dying, nothing else.

Offline dovy2

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2014, 10:05:24 PM »
Eretz yisroel it's the safest place on earth. Period. Source: Torah

Offline Baruch

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2014, 10:06:00 PM »
Eretz yisroel it's the safest place on earth. Period. Source: Torah
Eretz asher tamid einei Hashem elokecha bah?

Offline Baruch

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #130 on: July 03, 2014, 10:07:22 PM »
Another quote from the Satmar Rebbe:

Satmar Rebbe<(Ahl HaGeula v’ahl HaTemura simon 7): The consequences of all that we have discussed up to this point is that victory in war has nothing to do with miracles but is entirely natural. This is true even if a larger force is defeated by a smaller one and a stronger force is defeated by a weaker one… So surely concerning our topic of the war of the Zionists with the Arabs – there was not the slightest hint or scent of miracle. Because it is well known that Arabs and the descendants of Yishmael are not good soldiers and they fulfill the beracha that Avraham gave to Yishmael that he would fall before all his brothers…Therefore it is clear that there was not the slightest involvement of miracles in their defeat in war rather it was entirely natural. We have the testimony of many experts and government leaders that was published in the secular newspapers of that time which clearly foretold that the Arabs would not win a war because they were not good soldiers. I remember that in Israel prior to the founding of the State of Israel that the Zionist leaders gloated that they weren’t afraid of war with the Arabs even though they were numerically superior. These leaders explained that the nature of the Arab is to flee and escape from the sword of battle. But now the Zionist leaders are saying the opposite in order to blind the eyes and to exaggerate the victory by claiming false miracles and other things. They bribe the newspaper to write what they want to write in order to magnify their victory and their might. But it is clear that there is not even a whiff of truth in what they say about this. All of this is well known and there really should be no need to belabor the point nevertheless…I am belaboring this point…because of the great blindness in the contemporary world. Satan is becoming stronger and he is manifested in those religious Jews who are attracted to Zionism. Even to the degree that they announce that belief in the supposed miraculous victory is required and one of the foundations of faith. As if to say that whoever does not believe in their miracles is a heretic in their eyes. And they announce publicly and openly heretical words that these “miracles” were greater than the miracles done for those who were redeemed from Egypt…




For more sources GIYF

Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2014, 10:37:55 PM »
If everyone moves away from the border, then a new border forms. This is Dass Torah when it isn't backed up with Dass military. The Rebbe always said the outlying settlements keep the rest of Israel safe.

Offline yitzf

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2014, 10:39:22 PM »
I don't know if you've ever taken a stats course, but you're approaching this from the wrong angle. I'm not talking about the dangers of driving in the West Bank, or the number of cars there. All that matters in my argument is that if you take a sample of 100,000 people, how many of them will be killed? Yes, fewer people in Israel are driving, and there are fewer cars. As the numbers show, that just means its safer to live there.
What you're saying is the equivalent of me saying "how many fatalities per Muslim extremist in the US versus Israel?" The key is the odds of dying, nothing else.

Your reasoning would be analogous to saying that Kiryas Joel than Israel is safer because there are less deaths per capita than in Israel. (The reason KJ has less deaths is because the the median age 15 years vs Israel of 30).

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2014, 10:41:48 PM »
With all due respect the the Satmar Ruv ZT"L his opinion is not only against "empty headed fools that while they call themselves religious but the smell of heresy wafts from their mouths" but against most Gedolei Yisroel.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said many times, both before the war and after, that the victories and events of the six day war were open miracles meant to awaken the Jewish people, and had we been Zocheh and the Jewish people would have awoken and done Teshuvah Moshiach would have come then and there.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2014, 10:42:06 PM »
He explained the Israeli victory in 2 different ways. He said it for sure wasn't Hashem, it was either Israeli strength, or the Sitra Achra.
Ok, simmer down.
Honestly I almost never read the satmar sefarim. I know of his shitos mainly from when his detractors mention him in their sefarim. For example, I am aware of his opinion that the six day war victory was the unnatural workings of the sitra achra from karyana deigreasa... I had no reason to doubt that this was his only "way out".
You have presented plenty of passages where he writes that it was a natural victory of the weak over the strong or wtvr. I think most here can agree that this is not the pashtus or the metzius.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #135 on: July 03, 2014, 10:45:28 PM »
Eretz asher tamid einei Hashem elokecha bah?
::)

If already quoting scripture, why not mention the many times that the torah promises that the land will "spit us out"? Like for not keeping shimita properly, giluy arayos, etc etc.

Offline dovy2

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #136 on: July 03, 2014, 10:45:55 PM »
Eretz asher tamid einei Hashem elokecha bah?
Yup

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #137 on: July 03, 2014, 10:49:48 PM »
With all due respect the the Satmar Ruv ZT"L his opinion is not only against "empty headed fools that while they call themselves religious but the smell of heresy wafts from their mouths" but against most Gedolei Yisroel.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said many times, both before the war and after, that the victories and events of the six day war were open miracles meant to awaken the Jewish people, and had we been Zocheh and the Jewish people would have awoken and done Teshuvah Moshiach would have come then and there.

Do you really think that hashem makes a miracle through people that deny his existence and do everything against his will? I'm not saying anything against lubavitche rebbe, but don't walk blindly into the wall.

Offline Centro

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #138 on: July 03, 2014, 10:49:54 PM »
With all due respect the the Satmar Ruv ZT"L his opinion is not only against "empty headed fools that while they call themselves religious but the smell of heresy wafts from their mouths" but against most Gedolei Yisroel.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said many times, both before the war and after, that the victories and events of the six day war were open miracles meant to awaken the Jewish people, and had we been Zocheh and the Jewish people would have awoken and done Teshuvah Moshiach would have come then and there.
Now, the only difference between him and other Gedolei Yisroel is that Satmar ruv had written a very rich written saifer called V'yoel Moshe and also Al Hagilah Val Hatmira where he explains him self very well vs all other gedoliem which no one did,
So just saying "He doesn't know what he's talking about" is stupid, you gotto see what he says and then you could debate.

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Satmar Rebbe's comments on the three murdered teens
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2014, 10:52:41 PM »
Now, the only difference between him and other Gedolei Yisroel is that Satmar ruv had written a very rich written saifer called V'yoel Moshe and also Al Hagilah Val Hatmira where he explains him self very well vs all other gedoliem which no one did,
So just saying "He doesn't know what he's talking about" is stupid, you gotto see what he says and then you could debate.

+1 everybody agrees the state of Israel is against anything hashem wants.